thinking about getting an sg and fixing it up....anybody have one?
I played one not long ago.. it was basically worthless.. the frets weren't properly dressed, half assed job on the finish.. there was something wrong with the electronics so that the signal kept cutting out.. and it was just sonically dead despite weighing a ton
oh wait, you said chinese Gibson. Carry on.
Don't buy fake stuff man. The market is flooded with fakes already and you really don't want to encourage those assholes. Also, you wouldn't be able to sell it for a decent price if you ever have the money for an actual Gibson and you can't test it so you really don't know what quality it will be untill it arrives. You'd be better off just going to a store and buying the best playing Epiphone you can find there. You can always upgrade the tuners, nut, pickups, electronics on the Epiphone and you'd have a way better guitar than any fake Chinese Gibsun ever could be. Also, you look like a douchebag on stage if you have a fake Gibson. Lots of guitar players will be able to tell the difference and people that don't play guitar really don't care if it says Gibson on your headstock or not.
EDIT: there seems to be some misunderstanding. This post is about knock-off guitars that say "Gibson" on the headstock and look like SGs or LPs, but are actually cheaply fabricated peaces of shit that are made in China. This post is NOT about Burny, Edwards, Tokai, etc.
Quote from: mawso on May 30, 2011, 03:36:19 AM
I played one not long ago.. it was basically worthless.. the frets weren't properly dressed, half assed job on the finish.. there was something wrong with the electronics so that the signal kept cutting out.. and it was just sonically dead despite weighing a ton
oh wait, you said chinese Gibson. Carry on.
exactly ;D
The Epiphones are made in China now and are crappy now too.
But if you find one of the older Korean made Epiphone SGs those are pretty decent, you may have to change the machine heads to make it stay in tune but other that that they can be found for a reasonable price rather easily.
They're hit or miss. I've refurbed some kickass ones, and couldn't save a few. Get one from one of the "bigger" sellers, and the quality control is pretty decent. I'm probably gonna buy one of the creme SG's with three pickupzz...
or buy one of these bastards, and take that fucking headstock the a band saw to make it less ugly as fuck.
http://www.guitarfetish.com/XV-300-Double-Cutaway-Guitar-Solid-Mahogany-Arctic-White_p_2214.html (http://www.guitarfetish.com/XV-300-Double-Cutaway-Guitar-Solid-Mahogany-Arctic-White_p_2214.html)
My mate ordered a les paul standard (with seymour duncans) from edwards (who i believe actually got sued for using the exact same parts and specs) and man, it was an absolute beauty. Every edwards review i've seen seems to agree that the quality control is as good (if not better) than gibson's. Now, that may ruffle a few feathers but i've played some stock gibsons that have been a little bit shoddy, and i've only played the one edwards but it's still one of the finest guitars i've played (which isn't a great number, admittedly)
Aside from being japanese, rather than chinese, i'd say this is what you're looking for. They're not cheap, but they're certainly not gibson prices.
And about "encouraging" the manufacturers, have you seen the price of a gibson jimmy page signature guitar? Fuck encouraging that, ha ha.
Ruffling feathers because you're downing GIBSON? Fuck that, buddy. Gibson is a giant money/cum guzzling corporation that stopped putting out guitars for players LONG ago. I can't tell you how many stock Gibsons I've upgraded for my friends, and customers. "OH these tuners!" It's like the stopped rolling the frets at the factory YEARS ago. The finishes eat dick, the quality eats dick, everything fucking SUCKS. FUCK Gibson, more power to the Chinese for not having their heads in their asses when it comes to pricing.
I can buy the 3200 LP from Gibson, and do the same upgrades and work I'd be doing to the 286 dollar Chinese made guitar. Fuck that. I'd piss on a Gibson if it were on fire, but only after it burned for a while, because it'd be an improvement on the finishes they're putting out now.
Quote from: Fuhgawz on May 30, 2011, 04:03:31 AM
Don't buy fake stuff man. The market is flooded with fakes already and you really don't want to encourage those assholes. Also, you wouldn't be able to sell it for a decent price if you ever have the money for an actual Gibson and you can't test it so you really don't know what quality it will be untill it arrives. You'd be better off just going to a store and buying the best playing Epiphone you can find there. You can always upgrade the tuners, nut, pickups, electronics on the Epiphone and you'd have a way better guitar than any fake Chinese Gibsun ever could be. Also, you look like a douchebag on stage if you have a fake Gibson. Lots of guitar players will be able to tell the difference and people that don't play guitar really don't care if it says Gibson on your headstock or not.
Would you rather encourage Gibson to continually gouge prices for substandard product? If I'm buying a Chinese guitar, and upgrading it, it's for me. I wouldn't be selling the thing for "profit." Since when does anyone here care about resale value? We all play at least one piece of Peavey equipment. I put black electrical tape over every logo on every guitar I've ever owned. Lots of guitar players can suck my balls, if they wanna be butthurt that I joined their "exclusive Gibson club" with a knockoff. Someone call Univox/Burny/Edwards/etc and tell them all of their knockoffs are off the list of "cool guitars," because all the people that play them are douchebags.
The only time I really care about resale value is when I'm buying to resell. I will buy pretty much anything if I can turn it for a profit. As far as personal gear though, I really don't care about resale, but I do care about getting fucked. Gibson falls into that category nowdays. I wish I still had the link, but when Henry Juszkiewicz became CEO, he plainly stated that he thought Gibson was selling their stuff too cheap. He laid out his plan to raise prices to increase the perceived value of Gibson guitars. Meaning he just wanted to sell the brand. Gibson has also earned themselves the honor of worst places to work several times.
All that said, I still wouldn't buy one of those Chinese copys. The only reason anybody buys those is because they say Gibson on the headstock. You're still promoting the brand. Buy an Agile or Xaviere. No, they're not exact copies, but I think they're probably a better starting point than the Chinese Gibson. They have decent hardware and pickups and you can upgrade as funds become available.
....or, just throwing it out there, instead of dropping $300 on a Chinese Les Plywood and then another $300 upgrading it etc. save up a bit more cash and get yourself gibson styled "whatever the hell shape you want" custom from one of the literally hundreds of small builders in the States and Canada, in most cases hovering around $1000 (you're 2/3rds there already)
http://www.sombrabella.com/lowelguitars/past.html
From the above link, I've got that red SG, I'd put it toe-to-toe with any CS Gibson, I got it for $800
http://london.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-musical-instruments-guitars-custom-guitars-for-sale-W0QQAdIdZ220162312
From my hometown... look at that fucking lester... cheap as hell to boot
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/guits/ACguitarcollection.jpg
A buddy of mine, you could definitely get a basic SG-esque guitar for under a grand
Not trying to preach but, if you dig a bit, put it in a bit more coin, you could get yourself a guitar built by an actual human to your specs from somewhere in North America, and the cash won't be going to some fucking corporate conglomerate... I don't even think SunnO))) will argue with me about that one.
SunnO))) is also a fledgling guitar builder, and cabinet maker.
I just understand not having any money to get the equipment you want, and understand that finding cheaper alternatives is ALWAYS an option.
It's cheap for me to buy anything and upgrade it because I can do all of the work, in my sleep. Plus, I have a pretty extensive parts stash, anymore.
Guitar is supposed to be hands on, in my eyes. Every aspect of it, playing as well as learning the instrument itself. I know that doesn't bode well for me as a businessman, in the guitar repair/building world, but it extends further than making a buck. I'd rather teach kids what to do, and have them never come back to me, but leave with a valuable and lasting lesson.
I'm also a huge proponent of doing shit right the first time. That's why you'll see me getting testy with Hemi, from time to time (about painting, or whatever.) If you want quality work, it takes some time. If you want it done right, you gotta find out the proper ways to do things.
All of that being said, I have a hard time giving a grand to anybody for anything. Typically, for a thousand dollars, I can teach myself how to do something, buy the basic tools, and end up with a pretty damn decent end product. I guess everyone isn't me, though...
LOL @ Mawso's post, nice work, definitely did a spit-take there!
The counterfeit/forgeries from China are garbage, you'd likely be putting good parts on the absolute cheapest wood available, almost certainly not adequate for a guitar. File these pieces of shit along with the fake "Gucci" handbags made from polyester, bootleg "brand" electronics knockoffs, fake Harley parts, etc. in the scam pile, these things aren't intended to compete with their real counterparts, they're made to rip people off, and the counterfeit goods market from China to US and others rakes in hundreds of millions a year. I'd imagine there are legitimate Chinese guitar manufacturers making stuff to compete in the U.S./western market and those may well be anywhere from bunk to great quality-wise; I'm just referring to the glut o' fakes. Also, I'm not sticking up for Gibson at all, they can fuck straight off with their bullshit and them getting seared a little is funny; Sunn0)) 'splained it pretty good...
all points about the terrible quality of the chinese copies are accurate
so are the ones about companies like Burny and Tokai being awesome
i duno about all the Gibson hate -- i see about 10 new Gibson guitars a month and most of them are pretty much totally kick-ass. most of them need a few tweaks here or there, adjust the bridge and tailpiece or whatever, but then they're awesome. they definitely charge a premium for the headstock logo but i don't begrudge them much for it...everybody in the world knows and recognizes Gibsons as quality guitars so they're in demand.
frankly i don't have time to buy a bunch of lumber, clamps, saws and crap to get started making a guitar...and i don't wana buy the cheap bargain basement import guitars because i don't think they sound or feel any good, even after you put new pickups in them and dial everything in.
i got my SG for like $500 and didn't need to modify a thing once i put the strings I like on it...put aside $20 a month for a year and i bought a Les Paul...had my store's Gibson-certified tech dial it in and it's good one of the best guitars i've ever played.
so i mean i duno. if you can build guitars better than Gibsons for less then that's awesome and i would love to play one...but i still love my Les Paul haha
Quote from: SunnO))) on May 30, 2011, 11:53:28 AM
Quote from: Fuhgawz on May 30, 2011, 04:03:31 AM
Don't buy fake stuff man. The market is flooded with fakes already and you really don't want to encourage those assholes. Also, you wouldn't be able to sell it for a decent price if you ever have the money for an actual Gibson and you can't test it so you really don't know what quality it will be untill it arrives. You'd be better off just going to a store and buying the best playing Epiphone you can find there. You can always upgrade the tuners, nut, pickups, electronics on the Epiphone and you'd have a way better guitar than any fake Chinese Gibsun ever could be. Also, you look like a douchebag on stage if you have a fake Gibson. Lots of guitar players will be able to tell the difference and people that don't play guitar really don't care if it says Gibson on your headstock or not.
Would you rather encourage Gibson to continually gouge prices for substandard product? If I'm buying a Chinese guitar, and upgrading it, it's for me. I wouldn't be selling the thing for "profit." Since when does anyone here care about resale value? We all play at least one piece of Peavey equipment. I put black electrical tape over every logo on every guitar I've ever owned. Lots of guitar players can suck my balls, if they wanna be butthurt that I joined their "exclusive Gibson club" with a knockoff. Someone call Univox/Burny/Edwards/etc and tell them all of their knockoffs are off the list of "cool guitars," because all the people that play them are douchebags.
I don't think you quite understand. This is not about Burny or Tokai guitars. I have nothing at all against those brands. It is about cheap Chinese made knock-off guitars that say "Gibson" on the headstock, but aren't actually made by Gibson. At least, that is what I think the topic starter means when he says "those chinese gibsons...".
i forgot about the resale value argument:
i didn't intend to sell any of the gear that i've sold...i had to cuz the chips were down and the rent was due.
i sleep a lot easier knowing that if my life slips out of control again, that Les Paul i saved a year to get is still worth the money i saved for that year. i could easily get what i paid for it and could possibly get a bit more.
if you buy a used Epiphone for $300, put $200 worth of parts on it and spend a few hours putting it all together, you've got a $500 investment. Ever see a modded Epiphone on Craig's List? They're lucky if they sell for $250...half of your investment.
same goes for those hand-built awesome guitars by some guy in a shed nobody's ever heard of. You have it built to your dream specs in your favorite color and everything, then if it doesn't grow on you, or shit fucks up and you're desperate for cash, you're gona sell it at a huge loss. i built a custom warmoth when i was in high school, $700 project that i barely recovered $250 on when i parted it out and sold it cuz the tone wasn't right.
my SG is a rare color and the last one I saw online sold for $200 more than I paid for mine...my Les Paul is old and the last one from the same year i saw sold for $1000 more than mine...i'm not landing a record deal any time soon but i could make $1000 for playing that guitar in my bedroom and at small jams for a year!
not tryin to start any contention, i just think there are valid reasons to own nice things. Gibson fills stores with good guitars that you can actually sit down and try out and see if you like before you pay for...that's worth a small premium right there. You have no idea what your custom-made awesomecaster is gona sound like until the paint is dry and it's strung up and plugged in...and if the tone and feel ain't there, it's a wasted investment.
at least with Gibson you can try a bunch of guitars and decide if they're a wasted investment without dropping a dime.
i duno i'm just ranting. i see the weird QC issues from them too (the finish streaks and bad nuts and crap) but i don't think it's worth the raging rants to discredit them.
Quote from: xander face on May 30, 2011, 01:55:29 PM
i got my SG for like $500 and didn't need to modify a thing once i put the strings I like on it...put aside $20 a month for a year and i bought a Les Paul...had my store's Gibson-certified tech dial it in and it's good one of the best guitars i've ever played.
so i mean i duno. if you can build guitars better than Gibsons for less then that's awesome and i would love to play one...but i still love my Les Paul haha
You got a Les Paul for $240? That's about what I'd pay for a new one.
I have Ed Roman build all my guitars.
(http://www.whitwell.ndo.co.uk/musicthing/images/billybadass1.jpg)
:)
Is it black? Send it to me plz.
This thread makes me sad.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well Jake, touche for making me sound like a total teabagger..... I guess the thread veered that way, totally not my intention though.
Quote from: NoSleepTilSleep on June 03, 2011, 12:09:58 AM
Well Jake, touche for making me sound like a total teabagger..... I guess the thread veered that way, totally not my intention though.
DONT TREAD ON ME
:)
Quote from: Jake on June 03, 2011, 12:22:25 AM
Nah, mang. My comment wasn't directed at anything/anyone. Just being silly is all. I shoulda put a smileyface in there or something.
*spoiler alert***skip past this part if you don't want any details about the purchase*
It's a '54 goldtop replica. Wraparound bridge and P90s. Well, at least the picture has those things. We'll see when it gets here if it's anything resembling the photos. I saved a shitload of scratch and have been hunting for a real one for months now, but have been massively underwhelmed with what I've found. Well, except for the one I found in Austin. But that one was $33,000.
Let us know when it gets there!
No worries, it's good to have some perspective on my own bullshit sometimes. ;D
P.S I think the thread is thoroughly de-railed, I wanna see some pics of this goldie when it arrives
Yeah, much P90 love here.
(http://whirlwindusa.com/i1/vintage/lp84.jpg)
Gah! that headstock! Someone kill it before it breeds!!
:)
Do a full recap when able with pictures.
I find it interesting that the attitude here about them is different than most music gear forums. Usually threads elsewhere devolve into political threads. Guess HORNS doesn't hang out in the Jam Room...
What's the issues, Jake?
maybe the quality has taken a hit...
you've been successful twice, though? third time's a failure?
I'm shocked.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:)
Quote from: Jake on May 30, 2011, 07:28:34 PM
(http://www.whitwell.ndo.co.uk/musicthing/images/billybadass1.jpg)
That Panhead is badass at least.
:)
I just don't understand you people.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Black tape over the gibson logo makes that a perfectly playable guitar, IMO.
Is the fretwork bad?
:)
Joel is a negative nancy. How many pieces is the body? 35?
I'm glad it's alright. I'm gonna buy one now, and overhaul it.
:)
I don't get why anyone wants to own a "fake".
I don't get the whole Eastwood dealio.
I don't get the black electrical tape.
:)
Well, it looks pretty good in those pictures. I'd buy one used just to play with - shipping winds up killing the deal on new ones for me when you can buy Jay Tursers, Arbors, etc here.
I agree that Gibson's quality/pricing is gooned.
Quality/pricing does not compute with a fake gibson because the conversation stops at "fake".
There be my problem.
:)
Quote from: deaner33 on June 08, 2011, 03:55:37 PM
Do a full recap when able with pictures.
I find it interesting that the attitude here about them is different than most music gear forums. Usually threads elsewhere devolve into political threads. Guess HORNS doesn't hang out in the Jam Room...
I take it back. Here we go!
apparently, tradetang seller "jaja" is the guy to get a good copy from....
No, no, no. I'm not arguing morality. Of corpse I've downloaded music withoot paying.
I don't give a fuck that fakes are being made. I don't give a fuck that people want to buy fakes.
I just don't understand wanting one.
Same deal with Eastwood copies. I don't get it.
If I want a Ventures, I'm finna get a Mosrite.
I don't know, I think Eastwood has some validity in its existence. Say if you wanted an Ovation GP, QOTSA fanboys* have those things on lock... $3000+, the Eastwood is like what, $600 for a perfectly playable instrument. Eastwood fills that niche for junk-y hipster guitars without the pawnshop hustle.
*I'm aware of the vicious paradox that if you want a GP, you're probably a QOTSA fanboy.
Eastwood is in an entirely different class than these Fibsons. Eastwood guitars might be fakes but they are honest fakes.
(no moral quandary here either)
Again, there's a difference betwixt (I like typing that word) legit companies intending to make guitars to compete with the big fuckos, and counterfeit forgeries made solely to wrangle dollars out yo' wallet. I certainly don't begrudge anyone for trying to get a guit-fiddle for cheap, hell naw, and frankly modern-day Gibson can suck it.
Assessing a guitar as "perfectly playable" by .jpegs alone is a talent I wish I possessed.
I couldn't buy a Fibson because it would be admitting to myself that I cared what name was on the headstock. I mean, I do... I just don't wanna admit it.
My 2 cents: I've bought 4 new gibsons in the past 5 years and all have been awesome guitars- with the exception of the melody maker reissue I got that was, still, totally acceptable for a $300 guitar but just not what I wanted to put the effort into making playable (by my standards). I believe there have to be some quality issues just from the sheer amount of chatter you hear about it, but I don't spend a lot of time in guitar center or wherever trying out all their shit- a good portion of which I assume would be shit as they are a huge volume dealer, and their stock must be "Stairway-ed" to death by every mulleted 13 year old within range of the nearest bus route.
I've wanted SGs, LPs, Firebirds, etc since I was old enough to know better and now that I'm a decrepit old fuck with enough disposable income, I get 'em and the ones I've got have all worked out just fine. Got some older gibbys too and honestly don't see/feel/hear a whole lot that differentiates old from new- the 96 LP std I have is, to my ears, the best sounding of the bunch, but I haven't a/b'd it with the latest SG yet. New SG could be the new #1 as it just feels great and sounds about perfect. But I digress.....
I certainly don't hold Gibson in a particularly high regard- I'll play whatever sound and feels right. Had a couple nice Japanese copies over the years and would love to get my hands on an Ibanez Rocket Roll. I can see dudes getting the chinaclones to fuck around with and as a test to see if you can make shit into shinola, but myself- I wouldn't bother. I'm lazy. Sure- 300 bucks for the fake, plus 300-500 in parts, plus whatever you want to value your own time at probably equals out to fuck of a lot less than you'd pay for a new gibson- but it'll still be pretending to be be something it just isn't, for whatever that's worth. I guess maybe I've got lucky with the guitars I've bought and just haven't had a reason to try and polish the turd that most of the chinese gibsuns are reported to be. In any case, as long as whatever you're playing works for you on whatever level- tone feel, headstock decal- go for it.
foto flame, veneer...whatever, this is killer LOOKING.
http://www.tradetang.com/for-sale/Wholesale-1993-98-R8-MURPHY-AGED-KILLER-REISSUE-Free-shipping/127868-2600819.html (http://www.tradetang.com/for-sale/Wholesale-1993-98-R8-MURPHY-AGED-KILLER-REISSUE-Free-shipping/127868-2600819.html)
I really, really, like my Eastwood Corona. I've got the neck lightly sanded down with a high grit, so it's like motor oil on glass. After all said and done, it ended up in the $700 range. I grew up 30 mins. away from Kzoo so getting rid of my Les in favor of a knock-off was almost illegal. But my poor sk8r lower back just couldn't take all that mahogany. The Eastwoods are a pretty decent buy, if you wanna drop some money on after-market pups and tuners. I'm sure the quality varies from model to model.
It looks like they're trying to liquidate their stock, and they might end up being collectable in a few years.
They've stopped making the Corona SG, and I can't find any on Ebay.
:)
I'm glad it was salvagable brutha. \m/
Swank tits.
Redonk
Quote from: Mr Neutron on June 10, 2011, 04:55:20 PM
foto flame, veneer...whatever, this is killer LOOKING.
http://www.tradetang.com/for-sale/Wholesale-1993-98-R8-MURPHY-AGED-KILLER-REISSUE-Free-shipping/127868-2600819.html (http://www.tradetang.com/for-sale/Wholesale-1993-98-R8-MURPHY-AGED-KILLER-REISSUE-Free-shipping/127868-2600819.html)
No photo flame at all...
Jeez. That second one isn't even shaped right.
Still looks rad for a surprome.
Want this \/
http://www.eastwoodguitars.com/GTRs/P-90Special/P-90Special_frm.htm (http://www.eastwoodguitars.com/GTRs/P-90Special/P-90Special_frm.htm)
Also been itching for a semi-hollow even though my strat has been getting it done for me as my only guitar vs. a ton of basses. I'm thinkin' an artcore?
Suggestions?
Pass on the Artcore... get one of the semi hollows off GFS. They look stellar...
Woah, looks like they have some clearance blowout goin down.
http://www.guitarfetish.com/Jays-CRAZY-Blem-Xaviere-CLEARANCE-SALE_c_185.html (http://www.guitarfetish.com/Jays-CRAZY-Blem-Xaviere-CLEARANCE-SALE_c_185.html)
On a somewhat related note, I was actually suprised by the Epiphone '61 Casino in a store last weekend. It said made in China but played like one out of the Samick factory. Couldn't justify the eight benjamin price tag. Rather just get a used MiK Casino/Sheraton for around $400-$500.
Hi this my first post hi everyone. There I had to join to post this!
I have read all the stuff about chinese fake guitars being made of ply wood or having 29 piece bodies glued up with all the bits of wood that were not good enough to make packing crates from. and how the fretwork is so bad that you can use the edge of the neck as a saw and so on.
Then I saw some you-tube videos where the guys seem to be suggesting these copies fakes whatever you want to call em are actually not bad and are a good basis for a rework/upgrade they even suggest the best site and seller to buy from! So anyway mine arrived earlier this week. All I can say is ok its not a Gibson but then I never expected it to be for $340 inc case "(which actually isn't bad either)" and shipping. But what it is, is mahogany body with bookmatched flamed maple cap a real one not a photo flame. A one piece maple neck not a scarfed one as some are. Ok I could have if i'd known payed $25-30 more and got nibbed binding on the neck and ebony fret board instead of rosewood oh well live and learn. I recently faked an old korean epiphone into a gibbo LP custom not the usual way by recutting the epi head stock because this one was totally dead I had the head stock repaired but it wasn't done right so it broke again. Only when it did it shattered and looked like the end of a bum cigar from a loony toons cartoon. I repaced all the wood from about the 4th fret and recut a new headstock then got these ultra thin restoration logos and buried them under about 12 coats of laquer.
Took weeks to do, but I looked at and read a lot about gibsons and how to spot fakes to get mine about right. It wasn't perfect but from a couple of feet it did the job. Anyway one of my friends begged me for it so I sold it to him for what i'd spent on it.
So this chinese Fake is the replacement.Ok it looks pretty good and I got to choose the finish I wanted too. I havn't looked but a lot of these have epiphone pickups in havn't looked at mine yet and can't comment about the sound as the old one was upgraded with zebras anyway. I was going to buy a second hand epiphone or a Vintage until I checked them out in my local music store I also looked at burndy, indie and some make called Rally.The Rally looked better made than the vintage but not as good as the burndy or the indie although it was the heaviest of the lot. Chinese said the shop owner but £100 or$160 more than a fake gibson so in the end it was a no brainer.You get what you pay for the guitar body/neck is pretty solid and not bad at least as good as an epi. Goes without saying strings are crap, the hardware is gold plated knock off copies the tuners say grover but they ain't the bridge and tail piece will do for now the pickups will have to go and so will the pots and the switch. there are other things like 2 screw truss rod cover is correct but screwed on by a blind man pissed as a rat.gigson logo looks a bit small as does the split diamond also a possible alignment issue oh well. The fretwork isn't the best but isn't the worst i've seen at this price. a decent level and redressing would sort that out. so if i throw $200 £150 at this guitar it with be a very good guitar. it wont be as good as a gibson but it will have cost me $450 or £350. The same thing from gibson would cost me £3500 It would however not be 10x as good and I would not be able to justify £3000 difference in price. If a gibson was twice as much as the fake It would be resonable but it would have to be twice as good and I don't think it would be. On a final note guy at work decided to blow £1000 on a new gibbo LP studio last weekend Its nice but it ain't £800 better than my fake. I could have got a second hand LP studio off ebay for what I will end up spending on mine but I would have had to spend all the money at once and I couldn't be sure that it wasn't related to the one I just brought from china. They are getting better and are more difficult to spot mine is given away by the fret binding or lack of it and the careless fitting of trussrod cover and cheapo screws. Things like the neck angle and the way it curves on a real one are spot on. I suspect if I'd have gone for the one with the fret nibs and the ebony board it would have been almost un detecable unless you started taking bits off it to look at things like wiring and pickup routes.
I wonder what all the fuss is about really If you buy it as a fake and pay very little for great. If you brought an expensive Made in USA copy or was sold one of these as one of those expensive US copies then you have a right to be upset £3500 is a lot of money for a couple of pieces of wood especially if you drop it Then thats what you'll have.
They're great for those of us who can do the work on 'em ourselves.
Also pretty great for anyone on this forum, as I offer everything the option to send everything to me, for me to work on!
Good Point Sunno
I guess if you took one of these to you local guitar shop or luthier You'd end up with a big bill to get it to a good playable spec. I'm actually quite lucky I am able to set a guitar up far better than I can play one if you can call that lucky. When I was a kid I used to watch the guy in the local guitar shop repairing and setting up guitars. I've ruined many a cheap axe trying to set the thing up or customise it.
The point most people miss is that all the great guitarists have their great guitars and an army of guitar techs to set them up for them. A stock Fender, PRS or Gibson whilst very playable won't suit there style off the shelf as it were. (Well the PRS might as they are better than the other two IMO) A cheap guitar well set up can be an enjoyable instrument. Where as a badly set up expesive guitar can be a nightmere and an embarressment. "Christ that guys got a really Nice Gibson, its a shame he can't plat it" Unless your really something special or think you are most people only dream of owning a top branded guitar but can't justify the expence of getting one. With these Chinese Fakes people can get a guitar that looks like their dream guitar ( they do quite a good Ibanez gem, Fenders and PRS too) and depending on what they want from it can upgrade it as they want. I dare say that you could get really stung buying one of these guitars there obviously is some real crap out there with Gibson logos on, but it aint all from China. If you intend buying one of these check out youtube for fake chinse gibson and see for youself. You will also discover where and who to buy from. Also bear in mind that while china allows these things to be made and exported they are counterfiet items and will be siezed buy customs in most countries if they are discovered. Yep heart stopping moment when your traking online says "handed to customs".
gibson isnt just sitting still and dying. they have been upgrading their manufacturing technology. i have more confidence in gibson today than before.
the jibby digs the gibby,
but i'm a happy agile customer too .....
Does "upgrading" mean "ripping off customers by charging premium prices for substandard shit?"
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
:)
looks great jake! what all did you end up doing to it? as far as changing parts....
Lemme know when you want to send me that piece of shit. :D
:)
How'd you crackle the clear? It's poly, isn't it?
(http://www.dc-criminal-defense.com/Box%20Cutter.jpg)
No shit? That's kinda fuckin' cool. If you want to further the aged look... smoke it.
sunno, imo, you are a bit extreme in your bias toward gibson. i dont really care. but you are the one that will not be entirely correct in your polarized rantings.
Quote from: jibberish on June 28, 2012, 08:17:59 PM
sunno, imo, you are a bit extreme in your bias toward gibson. i dont really care. but you are the one that will not be entirely correct in your polarized rantings.
Pretty sure its something you catch from working on bunches of Gibsons.
haha, bummer about the newer gibsons...seems they have a very bad rep among those in the know. I can't argue, even though I stand behind those that I've owned. All I know for certain is that I love my old one, and nothing else compares.
I think those fake chinese gibsons are like the fake purses issue, not sure if they are illegal in USA as well! might be illegal just to even have one in your home even if you dont ever take it out of your home in USA...
Gibson Guitar Warns Consumers About Counterfeit Instruments Being Sold in the United States
April 18, 2007
Gibson Guitar continues to protect its intellectual property rights and provide consumer protection against the growing problem of counterfeit instruments being shipped from and sold by outlets and individuals in China.
Several complaints from consumers who were sold fake instruments has prompted an aggressive move on Gibson Guitar's part to work with government officials and other instrument marketers in an effort to curtail the growing problem. Gibson Guitar advises all consumers to purchase Gibson instruments only from their network of authorized dealers. Authorized Gibson dealers can be found on the company's website and should be referred to by consumers when purchasing their choice of Gibson instrument. A consumer is warned against purchasing any Gibson brand instrument outside of the authorized dealer network and the inevitable risk of purchasing what can turn out to be a fake.
The growing problem, originating out of China, has been reviewed by the U.S. Trade Commission and currently has the attention of Washington. China regularly defends its record in fighting piracy and counterfeit production of merchandise, however many pirated consumer products continue to be sold in various Chinese cities which affect a multitude of international manufacturers across many categories.
"We will continue to do everything in our power to protect our consumers and the integrity of our family of brands," said Henry Juszkiewicz, Chairman and CEO of Gibson Guitar. "We hope that by issuing this warning our consumers will be armed with the right information to protect themselves and understand what they need to do to insure that what they are purchasing is, indeed, an authentic Gibson instrument."
Consumers can check any of the references below when examining a Gibson guitar in an effort to insure its authenticity:
- Make sure the size is not undersized
- The headstock and headstock logo should match those of authentic Gibson guitars
- Pearl should always be inlaid
- Les Paul Model script is always in cursive
- If the guitar has a 3 screw truss rod it is not authentic
- Check the control and pick up cavities for sloppy routing or wiring
- Real Gibson guitars use one piece necks
- Many fake Gibsons have their pickup cavities painted black inside
- If purchasing a Gibson always ask for the Gibson's Owner Manual and Gibson/Warranty Inspection Card
- Check the wiring, if it is plastic it isn't a true Gibson
Other information on spotting a fake guitar can be found on www.gibson.com
In a recent case in North Carolina, a man was charged with trying to sell counterfeit guitars after a 15 year old discovered the instrument he bought from the suspect was a fake. The man was arrested on two felony counts of criminal use of a counterfeit trademark, following an investigation by the North Carolina Secretary of State's Trademark Enforcement Section. The investigation was initiated by a complaint to the Secretary of State's Office from a victim who allegedly bought what appeared to be a Les Paul model Gibson brand electric guitar from the man. The man had advertised the guitars for sale in the local paper.
Auction websites currently have hundreds of instruments which resemble Gibson Guitars and other brands. Some even feature trademarked headstocks and logos. Many of these items carry a very low sale price but exorbitant shipping costs. Upon close inspection the guitars will not feel or sound like a true Gibson and most are not of good standard of quality overall. If a guitar is up for an auction for a straight price or a fraction of what one would cost typically, the consumer is taking a great chance in purchasing it. Gibson Guitar warns against such action. Consumers should be wary of such sales that also offer shipping prices that are more than the guitar.
Illegal merchandise entering the country offer great damages on many levels; and counterfeiting in the United States is a serious crime punishable in a court of law. By Federal statutes, selling and also owning counterfeit merchandise is a felony. By issuing this warning, Gibson Guitar hopes to educate its loyal consumers about such wrongdoings and protect them.
For more information, visit their web site at www.gibson.com
I notice I was smited after posting that ^^ ;)
I was 1 smite now I am 6, any more? :)
I own three guitars right now. An 1985 SG Special (came with Dirty Fingers/single coil/single coil & Kahler), a mid 90's Les Paul Junior (single dog ear P100 & routed for a neck pick up and long tenon never mind the neck is a short tenon!), and a Tradition lester copy. The Tradition (built by Samick to my knowledge) is by far and away the best built guitar. I do not mythologize Gibson the way Gibson does. They carve up wood, paint it, and put strings on the wood just like 100s of other companies. These guitars are all carved up by cnc machines. There is little mojo left in the mass manufaturing business. I would actually like to see Gibson stop with the robotic guitar crap, stupid designs, stupid concepts, and get back to concentrating on building simple quality guitars but I ain't holding my breath.
Until those Robot models include a blowjob attachment, I remain totally unconvinced of their worthiness.
That's really not a fair statement.
I suppose a "make me a mushroom and feta omelette" attachment would suffice.
Anyone remember when Gibson built LES PAULS and flaky japanese crap companies built guitars with built in effects (ie firebird x) ?? facepalm
Quote from: dogfood on July 01, 2012, 05:18:46 PM
Anyone remember when Gibson built LES PAULS and flaky japanese crap companies built guitars with built in effects (ie firebird x) ?? facepalm
(http://www.preservationsound.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Electra_MPC_Guitar_1976.jpg)
Quote from: jibberish on June 28, 2012, 08:17:59 PM
sunno, imo, you are a bit extreme in your bias toward gibson. i dont really care. but you are the one that will not be entirely correct in your polarized rantings.
What in the everliving fuck are you talking about? I don't hate
Gibson. I
loathe the fact that they are allowing such utter
bullshit to leave their factories. My bias would be
against, if there were another company that I were hailing as "better" or "a good alternative." I work on these fucking things, on an almost daily basis. I HATE doing other people's jobs for them, I am a repair tech. Not a "product finisher."
Explain to me what you find endearing about every 1 in a hundred guitars being half-decent, and furthermore, please explain to me how I am "not entirely correct" in my "polarized rantings?" You think Fender is paying me to slander Gibson? Agile telling me to downplay new Gibson to increase numbers? Gimme a break, I am telling you MY findings, but it's a matter of opinion? A row of fucked up fretwork isn't opinion, sir. There is physical, tangible evidence to support my findings. I invite you to go play a couple hundred of these guitars, and report your findings, further more, I suggest you put a wrench to fifty or sixty of them and tell me how ya feel.
EDIT: If you are referring to my "piece of shit" comment, that is called sarcasm, and ball busting. That is obviously a fake, and I happen to quite enjoy the fact that it is pretty spot on, and genuinely want it. I expect to do work to a guitar like that, but NOT the guitar that is it's basis. (2500$+ LPC.)
let the smiting continue lol
I mize well just go buy a louis vuitton men's purse to go along with my fake chinese gibson les paul custom, maybe Ill pick up both being hocked when I visit the big apple New York City ;D
on that smiting note, you can report the fraud counterfeiting:
www.ic3.gov/
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
8)
u know u rlly want a real one ??? ;D
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/gibson-custom-limited-edition-les-paul-custom-electric-guitar
(http://static.musiciansfriend.com/derivates/18/001/278/776/DV016_Jpg_Large_511976.648_silverburst.jpg)
Quote from: everdrone on July 02, 2012, 12:12:10 AM
let the smiting continue lol
I mize well just go buy a louis vuitton men's purse to go along with my fake chinese gibson les paul custom, maybe Ill pick up both being hocked when I visit the big apple New York City ;D
on that smiting note, you can report the fraud counterfeiting:
www.ic3.gov/
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
8)
smitten, suck it, nerd! ;D ;D
Quote from: everdrone on July 02, 2012, 12:12:10 AM
let the smiting continue lol
I mize well just go buy a louis vuitton men's purse to go along with my fake chinese gibson les paul custom, maybe Ill pick up both being hocked when I visit the big apple New York City ;D
:)
whatever sunno, you are exaggerating now. but ya, think what you think. idc, but it isnt exactly reality and im not going to antagonize you any more about it.
You know as an owner of a Gibson that Sunn is working on, I get where he is coming from (even though I had to get chewed out by him). I do have issues more with Gibson's marketing than anything else. When you go around saying you are the best ever, that does open you up to a lot of criticism. Like saying baked maple is this great new thing instead of explaining the real reason you are using it. Also, charging a premium for your Guitars that have more issues than new Chinese guitars is problematic.
maybe the same guy that hocks the fake designer purses on the streets of new york city can hawk me a fake chinese gibson! ;D
gibson owns epiphone and does quality control on their chinese counterpart, so if one wants to buy the chinese version they can. Your friends cant read the headstock that means "USA made" though... those epiphones are very quality fine instruments for very very little, truly this is the age of being able to acquire a real instrument. the cheap guitars 70 years ago were horrible in comparison...hence the colloquilism:
"played out like a cheap guitar" :)
Quote from: jibberish on July 02, 2012, 06:01:53 AM
whatever sunno, you are exaggerating now. but ya, think what you think. idc, but it isnt exactly reality and im not going to antagonize you any more about it.
You didn't answer any of my questions. You accuse me of something, and when I call you out on it, you don't respond? What is that? Perhaps
you should properly examine "reality" because you surely don't have a clue, at the moment.
Sheesh!
Get a room, you two. ::)
FIGHT!FIGHT!FIGHT!FIGHT!
over four pages of heated debate and no one has mentioned Givson yet? Granted they're made in India but look at these fucking things haha.
(http://images01.olx.in/ui/18/27/48/1325954311_297671948_1-Pictures-of--electric-guitar-givson-gs-1000.jpg)
I wasn't trying to be a dick or anything, but I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me I am wrong, and condescend to me without a solid-fucking-case. Just because I am a "Moderator" doesn't mean I won't engage in the same petty bullshit as the rest of the board. So, let's fucking dance.
"I don't care but here is my extremely grating and condescending opinion, anyways, because I want to be contrary just to be contrary. Cuz, you know, just sayin' you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, but I won't provide explanation or evidence stating my claim."
^^^ this is what you really meant, right?
Quote from: hisheroisjon on July 02, 2012, 01:36:16 PM
over four pages of heated debate and no one has mentioned Givson yet? Granted they're made in India but look at these fucking things haha.
(http://images01.olx.in/ui/18/27/48/1325954311_297671948_1-Pictures-of--electric-guitar-givson-gs-1000.jpg)
The lightning stickers just has 'pure tone' written all over it.
I need to check out these Givsons.
Quote from: eoin_not_ian on July 02, 2012, 02:21:29 PM
Quote from: hisheroisjon on July 02, 2012, 01:36:16 PM
over four pages of heated debate and no one has mentioned Givson yet? Granted they're made in India but look at these fucking things haha.
(http://images01.olx.in/ui/18/27/48/1325954311_297671948_1-Pictures-of--electric-guitar-givson-gs-1000.jpg)
The lightning stickers just has 'pure tone' written all over it.
I need to check out these Givsons.
Not only that, but that guitar is 100% legal—it doesn't look anything like any Gibson model out there. If anything, it reminds me of a BC Rich Eagle.
Quote from: RacerX on July 02, 2012, 02:55:00 PM
Quote from: eoin_not_ian on July 02, 2012, 02:21:29 PM
Quote from: hisheroisjon on July 02, 2012, 01:36:16 PM
over four pages of heated debate and no one has mentioned Givson yet? Granted they're made in India but look at these fucking things haha.
(http://images01.olx.in/ui/18/27/48/1325954311_297671948_1-Pictures-of--electric-guitar-givson-gs-1000.jpg)
The lightning stickers just has 'pure tone' written all over it.
I need to check out these Givsons.
Not only that, but that guitar is 100% legal€"it doesn't look anything like any Gibson model out there. If anything, it reminds me of a BC Rich Eagle.
koa Eagles are so classy looking. Underrated doom axes.
Quote- Check the control and pick up cavities for sloppy routing or wiring
- Real Gibson guitars use one piece necks
Sloppy routing and wiring is how they come. Two piece necks comes a little later.
Quote from: SunnO))) on July 02, 2012, 03:17:01 PM
koa Eagles are so classy looking. Underrated doom axes.
I spammed my one here?
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/Incarante/BC%20Rich%20Eagle/eagle001.jpg)
And here is the Doom cred for it:
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/Incarante/stainedglasshorizon.jpg)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCPrPMe8LHg
Quote from: RacerX on July 02, 2012, 02:55:00 PM
Quote from: eoin_not_ian on July 02, 2012, 02:21:29 PM
Quote from: hisheroisjon on July 02, 2012, 01:36:16 PM
over four pages of heated debate and no one has mentioned Givson yet? Granted they're made in India but look at these fucking things haha.
(http://images01.olx.in/ui/18/27/48/1325954311_297671948_1-Pictures-of--electric-guitar-givson-gs-1000.jpg)
The lightning stickers just has 'pure tone' written all over it.
I need to check out these Givsons.
Not only that, but that guitar is 100% legal—it doesn't look anything like any Gibson model out there. If anything, it reminds me of a BC Rich Eagle.
I like the neck through pattern on the body and the obvious bolt on neck!
not a fight.
i have the right to feel sunno is exaggerating and has limited scope of experience.
ok, you want reasons?
Sam Ashe opened in Lyndhurst on the Greens in the very ealy 90's. guitar center showed up out there, then over on the west side shortly thereafter. ever since those 2 places opened i have played the walls of guitars on a regular basis(well they have now gotten rid of the walls of guitars). this is how i found an ibanez with a neck and action better than anything else in the store. $200 ibanez, i may send it to you sunno for a careful refret. you will shit. i later found another almost as nice for my son. it took 6 months of playing every guitar on th ewall.
i also played every giibson on wall, the LP's sg's all the epiphones, the $6000 custom specials or wtf. all of them month after month, year after year. i flat guarantee you that i have handled way more gibsons than you have. i have seen the quality change, and change again. when i bought my cortez 59black beauty jap copy in 1978, i had 3 LP's right there to really compare. been checking them out ever since. some of those new weather cheapo LP's look worse than they actually feel. i dont like them anyway, but they played. i tried a few out. the only thing i really saw was cutting finishing corners like to save money. eliminating entire steps like bindings or certain finishes or inlay styles etc
of th ethousand guitars i have messed with, the number of fucked up gibsons was right along with most everyone else with a few exceptions of no fucked up guitars. they never stood out as the worst.
ok here is my basic rundown on qualtiy of what i saw in GC and SA to further qualify
PRS - pieces of artwork, i never saw any of them screwed up used or new.
parker - also, someone was making these with love all were immaculate, i dont like them, but they are built very sweet
jackson, IMO this is a junker line in these stores hi end ones were pretty nice, rest were junk
fender, they are pretty consistent like ibanez, but most dont play right, or just need tweaking, esp strats
ibanez, best necks ever for mass production, rest is garbage on their lower guitars. the one with the handle plays like a dream even tho it is queer as hell
esp, nice, nothing special imo
musicman, awesome ass lil guitars, tight solid, players, every one
gibson, ya there some that leave you wondering, but the bulk are just fine. i like my action lower than typical gibson factory so once i noticed they were all high, i was ok again
Schecter - IMO VERY underrated guitars. , they are built like cheap PRS's look feel play great, but there are bad ones for sure
lucitemockingbirds...no..seemed nice but i didnt like them so i never played those heh
danelectro-there were some clinkers but also some players, just didnt feel they would last long, like jackson
epiphone and squire, id buy those, many many really nice players. some that should not be on th esales floor
and oddballs, hamer , peavey, i cant think of the other stray dogs that i didnt see enough of to have a feel
so, i really like you, you are one of my favorite people, and i just was not going say anything more when you say 1 of 100 gibsons is ok. becasue i know that is not true FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN IN MY EXPERIENCE (only heh)
ALSO ponder this: we both could be right. i would say of the last 100 gibsons i toyed with about half were the usual meh ok nothing special, 1/4 i wanted to take home, and 1/4 had issues. like look at 5-6 of a new model 1 maybe 2 were a dream, the rest were ok except for one that you go"wtf" on. And the last 100gibsons you saw were not the same ones i saw, so ya, 99 of those may have been bogus and only one was ok.
and i did not intend to agitate you to this degree.
My take is that there is not necessarily a flat out decline in the overall quality of a Gibson, but moreso that the quality to cost ratio with them has been on a huge downside for the better part of a decade. That is something that I don't think anyone would have a leg to stand on if they were to deny it.
On top of that there are several questionable business practices, both in the open marketplace and behind the scenes, that tend to tarnish their reputation and lead to further negative brand perception to people like me (and I am most definitely not alone).
Off the top of my head, things like:
- Purposefully making it impossible for a mom & pop store to be a dealer, by charging exorbinate fees
- Which chokes off the supply chain to only the mega, big box stores
- Gibson topping the "worst places to work" lists, which highlight dictatorial style management
- Politicizing when they got caught (twice) importing restricted wood. "It's Obama's fault!"
- Seemingly all R&D efforts going into very gimmicky robotic guitars? Who wants those?
- Genreally do not seem to be interested in making a good and affordable instrument
- Baked. Fucking. Maple.
Quote from: Jake on July 03, 2012, 09:53:39 AM
My take is that there is not necessarily a flat out decline in the overall quality of a Gibson, but moreso that the quality to cost ratio with them has been on a huge downside for the better part of a decade. That is something that I don't think anyone would have a leg to stand on if they were to deny it.
On top of that there are several questionable business practices, both in the open marketplace and behind the scenes, that tend to tarnish their reputation and lead to further negative brand perception to people like me (and I am most definitely not alone).
Off the top of my head, things like:
- Purposefully making it impossible for a mom & pop store to be a dealer, by charging exorbinate fees
- Which chokes off the supply chain to only the mega, big box stores
- Gibson topping the "worst places to work" lists, which highlight dictatorial style management
- Politicizing when they got caught (twice) importing restricted wood. "It's Obama's fault!"
- Seemingly all R&D efforts going into very gimmicky robotic guitars? Who wants those?
- Genreally do not seem to be interested in making a good and affordable instrument
- Baked. Fucking. Maple.
I agree with all of that except the Baked Maple. I like the way it feels (sorta like ebony).
Good, now this is something to work with. Alright, Jibs, You know what I do for a living, right? I drive. I am a Courier, the area that my company blankets includes Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana and the very southern portion of South Carolina. All of these states have Sam Ash, and guitar centers. Florida has one in pretty much every major city, and even a few in suburbs of major cities. I have been to all the Guitar Centers in Florida, save for two or three. I have played Gibsons in all of them, I was curious as to if my local store** is getting bum shipments. I developed that theory based on playing a couple Gibsons in Jacksonville, about two and a half hours away. There was a vastly higher ratio of guitars that I deemed "playable." Jax is a large store, and high volume. Tallahassee is a small store, with pretty piss poor volume in comparison. TL;DR -fast forward- They tell higher volume stores to set the guitars up and do the minimum amount of work to make the guitar acceptable to people like me. Lower volume stores just hang them on the wall.
It's not like I am the only person that sees the flaws, and issues. If FRAM started making bullshit oil filters, or Pennzoil started cutting their synthetic oil with water, I'd treat them the same as I do Gibson. Giving less product, for more price, and not caring about what the general consensus says about it.
I could do a rundown of all the big brands and tell you what they do or don't do. There is something amongst all of them that is pretty much 100% common, though. Half-decent fretwork. I have never played a guitar over 400 bucks from ANY brand that had the low quality fretwork of today's 800 dollar Gibsons. That, to me, is bullshit. If SX and Xavier can do decent fret dresses on their MILLIONS of cheapie guitars, Gibson can fucking do it to theirs. There is NO EXCUSE to have a guitar leave that factory with fret ends that can cut my hand. That is outright, pure bullshit.
There is a lot of shit that agitates me purely from a tech standpoint. I run everything with a fine toothed comb. I am very detail oriented when I am working with instruments. There is simply a lot of shit that you don't see as a "player." Now, I am a player, but the fact that I don't own a single guitar that I haven't worked on, and the fact that I have worked on guitars of every make and model for the passed five or six years of my life makes me a little more "in tune(lol,)" with the quality of workmanship regarding certain companies.
Fender, y'know? You have a hard time finding a Mexican Fender that is just a complete piece of shit, dog of a guitar. Sure, some guitars just-don't-have-it. On the top, These guitars are damn decent, hell, my favorite guitar is a mexican tele. Ever stripped the paint off one? Taken a fretboard off? Seen the stock wiring? You'd be mad as hell to see a truss rod route FILLED, and I mean FILLED, Can't fucking see the truss rod in it's own route style filled with glue. Do you have any fucking idea how hard it is to take a chisel and try to scrape the fucking glue out of a truss rod route so you can replace the fuckin' thing? Did I have to get all of the glue out? No. Did I? Yeah, because that's the proper way to do it.
There is no reason for the people counterfeiting the fuckin' guitars to do a better job than the people who actually make the guitars. You know how we pick out fakes at GC when one pops up? We look for shit fretwork, and corian nuts. Those fakes are really, really good now, to the point of using Gibson's lackluster quality to pick out the fakes against the real ones. That is outright fucking pathetic.
I'm just saying, you may have more experience playing them, but I most likely have more experience doctoring them. Do you tell your mechanic how to do his job based on you driving a car longer than he has? Cool. I ain't mad at you, but if you're going to accuse me of not being in proper understanding of the situation, you are going to have to back it up with some proof.
**The staff in the local store knows me very, very well. To the point of calling to me ask me information about equipment they don't know about. Discount, etc.
I really like maple too. I actually prefer it on a Fender neck moreso than any other wood.
But with Gibson, it strikes me as yet another costcutting measure – with the savings (once again) not trickling down to the consumer, but fattening a profit margin.
I could be wrong, but it's all about perception. In marketing, perception and reality carry the same weight.
8/4 Gaboon Ebony $80.0 /board feet
Rosewood (Central American) 4/4 Lumber - $24.99 /Board Feet
Maple Hard White 4/4 Lumber - $5.99 /Board Feet
So Sunn Jake, we haven't really discussed what you did on my brand new 2012 LP. Before you go into it let me preface that I am an enthusiastic novice player, so my descriptions might not be totally correct. The LP looked and smelled gorgeous to me. The neck (frets) felt funny - not the worst ever, but not great. The action was high & the pickups were kind of noisy.
I also sent Jake a new Epi SG. The action was high, but the frets felt better than the LP. At the time he received both, he liked the SG a lot better.
Now that you worked on both, what are your thoughts?
For a low end, Chinese SG? The P90s were hot, the frets and binding were good (needed minimal polishing to get the mirror-like feel,) and it played really, really nice after the setup. I dug that guitar. Didn't neck dive, nothin'.
The LP? Fret ends were nipped, and hit once with a file, then steel wooled at the factory, I'm pretty sure. At least that's all I got from it. The fretboard itself had no relief, so the edges were SHARP. The pickups were noisy as fuck, no shielding (or conductive shielding paint.) Finish had blems and bubbles in the cut-away. I fixed everything but the paint blems and the pickups, They would have had to have been replaced. They're just tiny and weak, to me.
SG wins.
Let me speak a little bit about their guitars that are not brand new ones on the walls of the mega stores. You guys can better speak to those.
I bought a 2011 non-reverse Firebird last year. It was used, "open box" so the reduced price brought it to within my personal quality-to-cost ratio. A long way of saying that it was worth $1200 asking price to me.
Now only a year later, the wood has been drying and things are beginning to get a little wonky. The fretboard is not bound, so the shrinking wood has made the fret ends poke out. The guard is also slightly warping up in some spots as the wet wood dries and contracts. I'd love to get the frets taken care of now, but don't want to have to keep addressing it as the wood cures, so I'll leave it in the case and wait it out. It makes me sad, because I really love that guitar. I should say that I really love non-reverse Firebirds, and only like mine. If I could afford an old one, you better believe I'd have gone that route.
But it's not that it's a total loss or anything. I just wish it was something that didn't require constant intervention. Dry your wood, then build my guitar, Gibson.
PS - you just wait, newer Gibby owners. Especially the maple caps on new Les Pauls. Your pickup rings are going to be flexing up a storm in the not to distant future, I promise you.
Great.
Jake, shoot it here and let me see if the climate change effects it... :)
Also, ill fix dem frets.
Quote from: SunnO))) on July 03, 2012, 12:00:20 PM
Jake, shoot it here and let me see if the climate change effects it... :)
If humidity is good, I should be ok with mine. I hope.