That guy with the feedback-punching act has sort of an "art schtick" thing going on there.
I have listened to that video with the 2 raging sax players
I have listened to HMC tunes.
this stuff spans the range from zero music tones being played all the way to almost being regular music like the blemished record song.
this then becomes a composition freakout for me. IS this the most open genre ever?
How does one go about getting the ideas for songs?
Quote from: jibberish on September 02, 2015, 04:36:15 AM
That guy with the feedback-punching act has sort of an "art schtick" thing going on there.
I have listened to that video with the 2 raging sax players
I have listened to HMC tunes.
this stuff spans the range from zero music tones being played all the way to almost being regular music like the blemished record song.
this then becomes a composition freakout for me. IS this the most open genre ever?
How does one go about getting the ideas for songs?
The only art going on in the posted video tantrum would be the `art' of convincing suckers that there was something musical or artistic trying to happen there at all. Convincing people that the random noise he haphazardly vomited out with complete disregard for pitch, rhythm or any sort of musicality whatsoever may be an `art form', but the byproduct is not art. Calling it `performance art' might be a stretch too.
Quote from: neighbor664 on September 02, 2015, 07:02:04 AM
Quote from: jibberish on September 02, 2015, 04:36:15 AM
That guy with the feedback-punching act has sort of an "art schtick" thing going on there.
I have listened to that video with the 2 raging sax players
I have listened to HMC tunes.
this stuff spans the range from zero music tones being played all the way to almost being regular music like the blemished record song.
this then becomes a composition freakout for me. IS this the most open genre ever?
How does one go about getting the ideas for songs?
The only art going on in the posted video tantrum would be the `art' of convincing suckers that there was something musical or artistic trying to happen there at all. Convincing people that the random noise he haphazardly vomited out with complete disregard for pitch, rhythm or any sort of musicality whatsoever may be an `art form', but the byproduct is not art. Calling it `performance art' might be a stretch too.
haha. you should have been the one to yell at billy Madison. i'm just trying to get a handle here so idk what to think yet.
Quote from: jibberish on September 02, 2015, 07:31:01 AM
i'm just trying to get a handle here so idk what to think yet.
Maybe you should try thinking for yourself.
im going to go ahead and try and help out here, since this is all my fault to begin with. I know me posting about 'noise' on a stoner rock board is going to fall flat for most people, but I love it and ive been here for a long time so fuck it. I figured if I can turn someone on to something they might not otherwise get exposed to then that's a good thing.
most everyone here is probably going to have the opinion that neighbor664 has. they are not going to like it, they are not going to see the 'art' in it, it will not be accepted and thats cool. im not going to say you 'don't get it' because thats elitist bullshit. having said that, it does walk the thin line of someone looking at a Rothko or Pollock and saying 'my 5 year old could paint that'. music is subjective, all art is.
ive always tended to gravitate towards the most extreme shit I could find in music, which is why I find myself liking the shit I like. it was a progression. metal lead to death metal which lead to grindcore which lead to noisecore. miles davis electric period sent me down the trail to more extreme free avant garde jazz. sun ra, then borbetomagus..etc..on and on.
im going to try and answer jibs questions here as best I can.
the noise scene is really not new. the term 'power electronics' was first used by William Bennett of whitehouse back in 1980. you can go back further and look at the work of modern 20th century composers like Stockhausen, cage, varese, to name a few.
the point was to make 'anti-music'. to be extreme and maybe even offensive. maybe not for the composers but for whitehouse and their offshoot Sutcliffe jugend as well as german noise duo 'cluster'. that music influenced a whole new era of power electronic artists, of whom 'wolf eyes' would probably be considered the leader of the modern pack.
is this the most open genre ever? maybe. theres lots of room for experimentation.
anal cunt took things to the next level with extreme noisecore/grindcore. the point was to be as offensive as possible. that spawned a whole crapload of bands including my own.
what is our philosophy? we never looked that deep into it. it was 3 idiots getting drunk and high and making retarded noise with stupid songs.
song ideas just flow. I mean you listen to our shit and its not rocket science. noise, feedback and a sense of humor.
we've been at it since 1999 and theres others that came before us. I love anal cunt, deche charge, none of your fucking business, and a shit ton more.
I think the point is NOT to over think anything. its anti-music. NOT FOR THE WEAK. its nonsense for the sake of nonsense. the mission statement of my band was to be the crappiest band in the world. everyone wants to be the best. fuck that, we want to be the worst. and here we are 16 years later still at it and there are people who like us. I guess we failed at our mission in that respect. ha.
im just excited that there is a thread about this crap that I didn't start.
I can get the same rush from a good noise band that I get from seeing good punk and metal bands. A lot of similar textures and high volume, stimulation, similar expression of intense emotions. But often minus the stupid genre rules of metal and punk (sometime with dumb rules of it's own). A lot of you guys dislike Sunn, they are a good gateway band into the genre for people who like heavy rock but don't know about noise. Sunn is pretty much a noise band using deconstructed doom riffs (sorry for using the word "deconstructed" -- I probably could have said it another way). If you don't like Sunn at all, you probably won't like noise either. Sunn are not exactly noise but have one foot in that world for sure, IMO.
Try approaching it as pure sound. Don't worry if there isn't a clear structure. Just like what Mortlock said regarding painting. There doesn't always have to be a clear narrative with an art form (painting is maybe the best example of this), sometimes it can just be about experiencing something and the reaction you get from it. Not a great example, hard to tell from photos sometimes, but if you stood in front of a Mark Rothko painting, you might feel something or be affected (pic to show scale) - noise can be like that. Like I said, think about experiencing it as pure sound.
(http://www.moma.org/explore/inside_out/inside_out/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Rick-Moody.jpg)
I was at the show you guys are talking about (with the microphone feedback and he hit a couple people). It was a surprisingly emotional experience. Not necessarily enjoyable emotions though. But there was a lot of tension in the room, and how often can you say that about a show?
Quote from: Lumpy on September 02, 2015, 08:02:03 PM
I was at the show you guys are talking about (with the microphone feedback and he hit a couple people). It was a surprisingly emotional experience. Not necessarily enjoyable emotions though. But there was a lot of tension in the room, and how often can you say that about a show?
ill second that. ive seen a bunch of wcpc shows since the dude lives in my town. im very good friends with him as well. his shows are intense as fuck and always seem to be a cunt hair away from total chaos ensuing. because the shows do get violent, ive often warned him that shit could go south fast especially when he is not in his home town surrounded by friends. believe it or not the dude is a teddy bear in real life. wouldn't hurt a fly.
here is a funny vid of one of the very first shows he crashed where he was pushed off the stage by security and he destroyed his knee. back in the day he had to crash shows because no one would book him. that's actually how I met him. my band was playing a show and when I got to the venue, he was setting up. I naturally thought he was a member of one of the other bands. he seriously just showed up, set up and played before anyone realized he wasn't supposed to play that night. it was awesome and we became instant friends.
at this show, I guess the security didn't apreesh it too much. CLASSIC!!
thanks for the insight guys. this is new, and it is curiously interesting. but most importantly it looks like fun.
I am in a great mood
alan is so envious of me, he cant help but follow my every word, in every post. just because you don't have the iq, the education, the money, the hubris, or the vertical stature that I do doesn't mean you have to hate me. if you had a flat head for me to rest my beer can on you would be a perfect 11. so chin up.
ps, no one can troll me anymore. Mostly because I cant afford to respond. so srsly alAn, I cant play. your 4 troll attempts were for naught. u can be as big of a shithead to me as you can dream up. you will be fine. me, I say the same thing and I will be permanently booted. this is not a democracy and those are the rules and I have music shit to do with these other music minded people so I will play by the rules.
so obviously I have to filter that shit as "noise" HAHAHAHA
edit: You guys have me psyched. the holy crap project is officially launched.
and I assume that if my show eventually includes modified appliances and power tool this would be good art. I really see nothing but fun and crazy experiments on the horizon.
that dude is metal as fuck for even getting the idea of crashing shows. that is next level.
editz: I googled holy crap. looks like there aren't any bands with that name.
i cant wait to hear some holy crap.
Quote from: mortlock on September 02, 2015, 08:35:03 PM
Quote from: Lumpy on September 02, 2015, 08:02:03 PM
I was at the show you guys are talking about (with the microphone feedback and he hit a couple people). It was a surprisingly emotional experience. Not necessarily enjoyable emotions though. But there was a lot of tension in the room, and how often can you say that about a show?
ill second that. ive seen a bunch of wcpc shows since the dude lives in my town. im very good friends with him as well. his shows are intense as fuck and always seem to be a cunt hair away from total chaos ensuing. because the shows do get violent, ive often warned him that shit could go south fast especially when he is not in his home town surrounded by friends. believe it or not the dude is a teddy bear in real life. wouldn't hurt a fly.
here is a funny vid of one of the very first shows he crashed where he was pushed off the stage by security and he destroyed his knee. back in the day he had to crash shows because no one would book him. that's actually how I met him. my band was playing a show and when I got to the venue, he was setting up. I naturally thought he was a member of one of the other bands. he seriously just showed up, set up and played before anyone realized he wasn't supposed to play that night. it was awesome and we became instant friends.
at this show, I guess the security didn't apreesh it too much. CLASSIC!!
I can appreciate that guys enthusiasm but id be pissed to.
haha. the ragged renaissance man. neo barbarian style
I bet he would dig a hat that had 3watt cree LED's on it with no lenses. the LED's just aimed forward and a pushbutton switch in his pocket.
those LED's are such concentrated light from such a small point it is similar to a welding arc in brightness(not really cuz welding arcs are fearsome, but this reminds one of it)
I guarantee that would bum people out.
so now he could temporarily blind them THEN punch them
One of the other points/results of noise music is that it sort of forces you to create your own narrative and pay greater attention to what's happening, internally and externally, rather than cradling you in a narrative in which you're already comfortable (doom, stoner, etc). However, sometimes for me the narrative is "this is fucking boring and I'd rather go do something else." Just like any other genre, there's shit you like and shit you don't like, whether it's doom or noise or jazz.
p.s. if you haven't heard US Maple, you need to listen. They're not pure noise so much as a "band" making songs - they may sound improvised, but I've seen them live and these are actual songs. Every album has a different flavor and I was always into whatever they did:
I loved US Maple, an absolutely amazing and deeply strange band. But not really fitting into this discussion. But yeah, OMG, so good. They sound like an indie rock band tumbling down a staircase.
Surprised to hear you don't think they fit. I saw them at least once during the "No Wave" scene in Chicago, with all kinds of various noise outfits on Skin Graft.
that sounds really cool. I wish I could have seen them. I love the old skin graft 7"/comic book sets. got a bunch of them.
the toy killers are some great no wave if youre into that sort of thing.
I think Skingraft type bands are more like "noise rock". Just like any discussion of genre labels, the lines of division are blurry, and it can get annoying to discuss. So, I'm not trying to be a dick (it comes naturally) :( One strike against describing US Maple as "noise"... they weren't into heavy distortion or feedback. That's often an important element. So, US Maple is weird and chaotic, yes. But not a noise band, I reckon. Everybody can decide for themselves though.
BOREDOMS would be a noise band many people are familiar with (early career -- they got into drone/trance type stuff at the end).
Here's a guy playing awesome noise guitar (he can play "regular" guitar really well, too).
Hard to understand noise totally just with Youtube clips... Just like seeing any type of band, when it's being performed live at 100 decibels (or whatever), this kind of stuff can hit you hard. I can get a similar rush from this, as I would from seeing a good heavy doom band or punk band or whatever.
If you want to find a bunch of contemporary noise clips on Youtube, look up "Ende Tymes" (festival).
this is a great thread for me. I didn't know about basically any of this shit at all. thx.
It's only the most open if you can find your space. If you can't find your space then it's not open at all.
My personal philosophy on noise is it's only as good as the people making the noise. I saw Drive Like Jehu last week and was completely blown away by the noises that Speedo could get out of his guitar... Mind blowing, really, and I've seen Hot Snakes 3 times and RFTC probaly 6 or 7 times. I've just never seen him in that capacity and he absolutely killed.
Anyway, noise is about making absurd tones that fit with what you're trying to do. Do it well and it's awesome. Do it wrong and it's just noise.
the elusive 'it' factor.
Quote from: mortlock on September 12, 2015, 12:09:11 AM
the elusive 'it' factor.
Pretty much... Really most music is this.
Quote from: Lumpy on September 11, 2015, 08:29:07 PM
I think Skingraft type bands are more like "noise rock". Just like any discussion of genre labels, the lines of division are blurry, and it can get annoying to discuss. So, I'm not trying to be a dick (it comes naturally) :( One strike against describing US Maple as "noise"... they weren't into heavy distortion or feedback. That's often an important element. So, US Maple is weird and chaotic, yes. But not a noise band, I reckon. Everybody can decide for themselves though.
I didn't read you as being a dick, just stating your opinion as fact. ;) I can get with noise rock for US Maple. Most importantly, here we are all discussing various kinds of "music" and sharing cool shit lots of folks haven't heard yet. I'm always down with that.
you cant talk noise rock and not mention amrep.
would you be so kind as to throw some of your recommended amrep vids up, oh sideline swami, gridiron guru, the ayatollah of I-ah-told-you. haha.
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oh shit. as soon as i noticed a cymbal on one of the turntables, i knew we were in for a ride haha (get it? [snickerface])
always had a weird soft spot for this album...
^love that one. I met and played with those guys in phx once. cool dudes. they smoked me out in their tour pick up.
Quote from: mortlock on September 02, 2015, 08:35:03 PM
Quote from: Lumpy on September 02, 2015, 08:02:03 PM
I was at the show you guys are talking about (with the microphone feedback and he hit a couple people). It was a surprisingly emotional experience. Not necessarily enjoyable emotions though. But there was a lot of tension in the room, and how often can you say that about a show?
ill second that. ive seen a bunch of wcpc shows since the dude lives in my town. im very good friends with him as well. his shows are intense as fuck and always seem to be a cunt hair away from total chaos ensuing. because the shows do get violent, ive often warned him that shit could go south fast especially when he is not in his home town surrounded by friends. believe it or not the dude is a teddy bear in real life. wouldn't hurt a fly.
here is a funny vid of one of the very first shows he crashed where he was pushed off the stage by security and he destroyed his knee. back in the day he had to crash shows because no one would book him. that's actually how I met him. my band was playing a show and when I got to the venue, he was setting up. I naturally thought he was a member of one of the other bands. he seriously just showed up, set up and played before anyone realized he wasn't supposed to play that night. it was awesome and we became instant friends.
at this show, I guess the security didn't apreesh it too much. CLASSIC!!
Looks nuts. When you say his knee got destroyed - like permanent damage?
I have been listening to all the links. these last 4, starting with helmet strap it on are more like regular music to me.
in fact, I have all the helmet albums. I thought it was stoner metal, like cathedral or w/e.
the amrep cow is like evil decomposed punk or something
the last one dives in to some cacophony here and there...wide range of offering eh?
can I call something like this project I did a noise tune? it is just a guitar with a background of a storm and I try to tell a story about a boat that goes out to sea, then gets stalked and finally crushed and dragged to the bottom of the sea using the guitar. haha this is already a year old or w/e
all the sounds, even that timpani roll is from me abusing the guitar in strange ways haha
[soundcloud]http://soundcloud.com/doktordeath/bigsquidlittleboat3[/soundcloud]
Quote from: TannisRoot on September 16, 2015, 01:06:47 PM
Quote from: mortlock on September 02, 2015, 08:35:03 PM
Quote from: Lumpy on September 02, 2015, 08:02:03 PM
I was at the show you guys are talking about (with the microphone feedback and he hit a couple people). It was a surprisingly emotional experience. Not necessarily enjoyable emotions though. But there was a lot of tension in the room, and how often can you say that about a show?
ill second that. ive seen a bunch of wcpc shows since the dude lives in my town. im very good friends with him as well. his shows are intense as fuck and always seem to be a cunt hair away from total chaos ensuing. because the shows do get violent, ive often warned him that shit could go south fast especially when he is not in his home town surrounded by friends. believe it or not the dude is a teddy bear in real life. wouldn't hurt a fly.
here is a funny vid of one of the very first shows he crashed where he was pushed off the stage by security and he destroyed his knee. back in the day he had to crash shows because no one would book him. that's actually how I met him. my band was playing a show and when I got to the venue, he was setting up. I naturally thought he was a member of one of the other bands. he seriously just showed up, set up and played before anyone realized he wasn't supposed to play that night. it was awesome and we became instant friends.
at this show, I guess the security didn't apreesh it too much. CLASSIC!!
Looks nuts. When you say his knee got destroyed - like permanent damage?
knee cap was twisted around. had to have surgery to fix it. there was a point where the doctors thought he might loose his leg from the knee down but thankfully that didn't happen. he is ok now but has problems and sometimes uses a cane. im sure when he hits middle age, he will be totally fucked.
to jibs point, I want to say two things. there is a big difference between noise music and noise rock music, which I think goes without saying.
the amrep stuff is pretty much regular music for the most part by todays standards, but think about this stuff when it was fresh in the early 90s. it was a huge refreshing change from hair metal and what not. the shit was great before the likes of pearl jam had to ruin it all.
pure pain to melt brain cells.
https://wavescrashingpianochords.bandcamp.com/album/12-split-w-hades-mining-co (https://wavescrashingpianochords.bandcamp.com/album/12-split-w-hades-mining-co)
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12038144_520430938113536_4785973882819566288_n.jpg?oh=08af92437294a467397caae99523f3c5&oe=5666C76A)
I was at that Borbetomagus show. Good example of pure sound in action (maybe that's not apparent from a Youtube clip). Like Sunn maybe it doesn't really translate (you gotta be there to understand Sunn).
im soooooo jelly you saw that and I didn't.
(Noise Manifesto from Joseph Roemer of Macronympha)
So many people have asked me lately , "Why noise?" What do I like about it and why do I choose to perform/record it? Obviously, some snobbish elitist will comment, "You all are talented musicians ... So why not do pieces more accessible, more traditional and more 'musical'." I piss on all of your heads and ask you, "Why not just jump out the goddamn window right now? You're going to die anyway." Fools. Here is one person's reason for being a noisehead. It is nothing more than my own vision and perhaps has little to do with how other noise artists define their purposes. We are indeed a varied and multi-dimensional group of people.
Joe's Manifesto of Noise. Not all of Macronympha. First, I'll admit it up front, Yes...making noise is a f&*king blast! To be able to crush a whole array of traditional guitar-player power chords on the demolition scale of merely using electronics is certainly a pleasant exercise in using sheer force to set a rhythm and an abrasive and crunching lead pattern.
Using noises, electronics, regular instruments and found metal to sculpt our sound is an endless challenge to explore and utilize. Until the advent of all this digital circuitry - one was somewhat limited (and very easily bored) just being able to experiment within so called "band" or "musical" formats. As players we all play all instruments - so I for one like the improvisation aspect of creating noise. We can do gorgeous piano, searing guitar grunge, industrial dance beat, etc. - all of the poplar crap, but it bores the living sh*t out of me - just like playing jazz or classical chords on my acoustic guitar. If you're good - why rehearse?
Performing noise is a constant roller-coaster ride of thrills. So much you can do. My techniques change regularly and once new pieces of sound or tech hardware are mastered - I can file them in my noise repertoire and bring them out or f*ck with them at any time in any way. Makes for a comprehensive tool-kit of so-called "instruments" at my disposal. I see them as sound generators. Noise is fulfilling on two levels. It is confrontational and emotional. If your crowd hates you, you can hate them back and make their guts churn and their ears bleed. Noise lets you perform how you feel exactly at the time. No having to repeat your songs the same night after night - no venting your anger inwardly or merely by thumping on a drum kit or chopping down on your guitar or bass a lot harder with your hands. Noise is power. It is an artist's dream when it comes to composing/creating an alien environment. Noise is its own dimension and when you are immersed in it you must (and do) go wherever it takes you. As an audience you are our prisoner or our collaborative partner.
I perform much how I feel that day. I have my noise arsenal fully loaded but one day I might use mostly effects and amps - another day drums and vocals - or that same week play keyboards. Sometimes I'll fly around like a maniac and do twenty different things or half a dozen all at once. Trying to harness the raw voltage, wattage, and power juicing over the stage is intoxicating with just enough elements of unpredictable surprises.
Imagine, full power up...5-6 amps all up to (10) ten - looping, crashing, feeding back creating layer upon layer of texture. I control the dynamics, the range of pitch; the rhythm and speed of the attack. It's like trying to harness electricity in a jar or trying to put a lasso around a lightning bolt. Noise is the mood setting king of all soundstages. Just look at how much great noise grabs you by the throat and beats your senses around when you're up close to the speakers at a movie theater. It disorients and it is not the kind of stuff an audience can expect to hear or sing along to. I love noise because it is obscure and hard to listen to.
Studio work is the more creative side of noise and it is within this environment that actual composed pieces are most often realized. I can exert far greater control over my piercing electronics and use all of the multi-track dubbing tricks at my disposal to distort even further the sound sources and the basic rhythm foundations. Not all noise pieces however need recognizable structures within textures. Sometimes no rhythm exists or simply a static wash of white noise is constant. The out of control stuff usually turns out to be incredible when recorded properly and I like the fact that much of the noise I make is more aggressive in the Japanese or English terrorist style; than in the academic or more minimalist styles of the collage artists, the concretists, or the sound poets. Power electronics are the minimum standards I need to personally get excited about creating an artistic explosion of sound. I guess to some extent I am a cultural terrorist and I like to cause discomfort. So many things piss me off about greed, politics and government. The fat and stupid mediocrity of Middle America. I could easily become a violent gun-toting mad man vigilante . . . and start a mass murder rampage targeted at corporate CEO's whose factories dump toxic waste in rural neighborhoods and against red-neck fundamentalist conservatives who preach jesus, pedophile children and who support republicans. I could choke the bankers who foreclose on small businesses in rough economic times and who likewise toss families out in the street to get their homes.
Instead, however, I make brutal noise. To me it is beautiful. It is soul-filling, peace-giving, and my muse. I can bludgeon you to death with it - or create haunting, eerie pieces of skin-crawling mayhem. It is the soundtrack to my life.
I can bang my metal senseless and take out frustrations and anxieties. I am noise . . . and noise is me. It is chaos but it is also comfort. It is all purpose, and then again it is random and continuous. It is everything all at once . . . and it is really nothing at all. To be the master of the overviolence is all the respite an artist can hope to achieve. While listening to Macronympha at loud volumes I guarantee you won't fall asleep or be bored or ambivalent. Come into my world - but don't stay too long. I could care less if anyone out there actually likes our stuff. We do this for our own selves, and I personally like distance between myself and much outside socializing. If I wasn't a noisician and if I didn't get high regularly, I'd be far too morbid and relentless - and wouldn't be someone anyone would enjoy being around for too long.
Someday I'd like to ultimately merge some of this soundscape-vision into a dual reality by composing noise backgrounds for film projects. If anyone out there has a feature or anything longer than ten (10) minutes to score or do a soundtrack for, please e-mail this account. Not just CMU students either. I want other driven and deranged people to send me ideas for what they want done with noise as music for their movies, plays, or performance/installation pieces.
Much of what is truly excellent in the realm of recorded noise today are in fact collaboration projects with many contributors. Still though most noiseheads are solo individuals who see their own vacant sound canvas with unique and exclusive eyes that ultimately make some kind of a mental picture. When I listen to Merzbow, I close my eyes and see images intended, and images never imagined. The appreciation (or hatred) of noise is purely an individual relationship, based on one's own taste.
Joseph Roemer of Macronympha