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General Category => Jam Room => Topic started by: Lumpy on February 13, 2015, 07:47:31 PM

Title: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: Lumpy on February 13, 2015, 07:47:31 PM
I'm a finger-picker and previously never cared to learn pick style, but I can see it would be better if I could do both. I don't understand some peoples' complete dismissal of pick players. YES, you can pretty much do anything with your fingers that you can do with a pick (but maybe not easily). And vice-versa. Cannibal Corpse guy plays thrashy metal with his fingers... Carol Kaye plays funky stuff with a felt pick. However, there are many situations where playing with a pick would be preferable, IMO. Fast metal, punk, anything fast and repetitious might be easier to play with a pick, and fingers have no advantage. Why deny it? (Nobody talks this way about guitar players, BTW... only bass players get criticized for using a pick).

Check out the isolated bass track from "Run to the Hills". Steve Harris is a bass god, but - I'm sorry - this bass track would be better with a pick. Any dynamic advantage that fingers offer (subtle variations in volume, attack, making the music seem more human, alive etc) are wasted on this song. You want steady repetitive hammering on this kind of music.



That's right, I just said Steve Harris would be a better bass player if he played with a pick.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: Lumpy on February 13, 2015, 07:55:07 PM
Keith Brammer of Die Kreuzen

(http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/metal/diekreuzen.jpg)

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DbFREo4Z-rI/hqdefault.jpg)

Darryl Jennifer of Bad Brains

(http://badbrains.com/bb/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/old-dj-pic.jpg)

Etc.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: RacerX on February 13, 2015, 08:54:28 PM
Quote from: Lumpy on February 13, 2015, 07:47:31 PM
That's right, I just said Steve Harris would be a better bass player if he played with a pick.

:o

That's sticking your neck out, alright...
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: RAGER on February 13, 2015, 10:46:24 PM
One of my all time favorite bass sounds is Dave Curran so.....
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: mortlock on February 14, 2015, 01:03:11 AM
its is an electric bass guitar. it is an electric guitar built for the bass range. technically it can be played either way, much like there are many classical guitar players who finger pick.

Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: liquidsmoke on February 14, 2015, 04:15:09 AM
Both styles are great but I will say that for faster stuff and for metal I prefer a pick.

It's interesting to hear Harris isolated. A pick probably would sound better but in the mix his finger style is fine.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: khoomeizhi on February 14, 2015, 08:33:04 AM
ever since i cut the tendons on two of my right-hand fingers, i don't have as much finger control in enough/appropriate fingers for it to be a reliable way to play. missing some nerves there too, which doesn't help. i had been 'mainly pick' beforehand anyway, just kinda sealed the deal. jeez, it's been almost 16 years.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: Pissy on February 14, 2015, 08:47:29 AM
it serves well to be able to do both.  I've noticed that I have a tough time with finger plucking being even across both my plucking fingers.  my middle finger being more intense.  I am almost exclusively a finger player, it's just the way I learned, and I have a tough time playing with a pick because my wrist angle is weird.  It's like I need to adjust my ride height to play with a pick to get the angle of attack to where it's comfortable.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: eyeprod on February 14, 2015, 12:03:47 PM
I like this just fine. There are dynamics, but yeah they might be a bit wasted on this song. Still, the end result sounds good, so I find it nice to hear a guy like him also plays a little sloppy when it comes down to it. Human.

I do not agree, however, that this would be better with a pick. It would sound too stiff. Part of their sound, a big part, is his bass. Just wouldn't be the same. Not even close, and I suspect that it would be pretty lame if played with a pick because you'd probably lose that "just slightly off" syncopation and in it's place would be too tight of a percussion sound that would not work as well with the guitars.

I play mainly with fingers, but use a pick for super repetetive single note punk type stuff. I also play guitar with fingers a fair amount of the time and have done so for around 20 years. Knowing both keeps you well rounded, but most guitarists don't take the time to learn. Fingers definitely have a great sound, in any case.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: liquidsmoke on February 14, 2015, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: eyeprod on February 14, 2015, 12:03:47 PM
I like this just fine. There are dynamics, but yeah they might be a bit wasted on this song. Still, the end result sounds good, so I find it nice to hear a guy like him also plays a little sloppy when it comes down to it. Human.

I do not agree, however, that this would be better with a pick. It would sound too stiff. Part of their sound, a big part, is his bass. Just wouldn't be the same. Not even close, and I suspect that it would be pretty lame if played with a pick because you'd probably lose that "just slightly off" syncopation and in it's place would be too tight of a percussion sound that would not work as well with the guitars.

He'd sound fine with a pick but you make a good case. He's been killing it for over 35 years using finger style... while literally running around on stage. God damn Iron Maiden rules.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: VOLVO))) on February 14, 2015, 04:56:14 PM





Definitely a finger player, and finger-style lover.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: Mr. Foxen on February 14, 2015, 06:51:26 PM
I play air bass with an air pick. But when I actually play bass its all fingers and thumb. Keep intending to get pick playing down, but basically every time I drop it, I switch to fingers and never pick it up again.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: lordfinesse on February 15, 2015, 12:18:02 AM
I think both pick and fingers have their place.

And yeah, for rock bass it really gets no better than Steve Harris. In piecing together a fantasy rock band of living musicians, he would be my choice for bass.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: Beta Cloud on February 15, 2015, 01:11:22 AM
question-
What do a bass and a lawsuit have in common?








answer-
Everyone is relieved when the case is closed.

closest i could come to a shitstorm.
sorry.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: Danny G on February 15, 2015, 12:28:03 PM
As a finger picker I get a little frustrated when bassists use a pick more out of laziness. But there is no right or wrong way.

Plenty of awesome players use a pick. Dug Pinnick, Mel Schacher, Carol Kaye etc
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: Dangling Fury on February 15, 2015, 12:54:58 PM
I believe John Paul Jones uses both and he said he views the pick in a similar way that guitar players view the volume pedal.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: RacerX on February 15, 2015, 01:00:47 PM
That bouncy Ramones style Punk bass stuff always sounds good with a pick—lotsa definition.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: Lumpy on February 15, 2015, 05:15:35 PM
Quote from: RacerX on February 15, 2015, 01:00:47 PM
That bouncy Ramones style Punk bass stuff always sounds good with a pick—lotsa definition.

That's what I'm saying about the Steve Harris track. Bouncy is one of his 'things'. All the fingerstyle level and tone variations don't add anything positive to the sound. They don't hurt the mixed track because there's 37 other things happening with the other musicians. But solo'd, his track reveals some flaws.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: RacerX on February 15, 2015, 06:36:42 PM
Quote from: Lumpy on February 15, 2015, 05:15:35 PM
Quote from: RacerX on February 15, 2015, 01:00:47 PM
That bouncy Ramones style Punk bass stuff always sounds good with a pick—lotsa definition.

That's what I'm saying about the Steve Harris track. Bouncy is one of his 'things'. All the fingerstyle level and tone variations don't add anything positive to the sound. They don't hurt the mixed track because there's 37 other things happening with the other musicians. But solo'd, his track reveals some flaws.

Rh, in the mix, it sits like a champ.

Besides, the Steve Harris gallop is different from the Dee Dee bounce.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: eoin_not_ian on February 16, 2015, 04:35:58 PM
I don't care either way. I play with fingers because they are cheaper than buying picks.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: Hagard on February 16, 2015, 08:12:50 PM
I use both it depends on whats best for the song  :D
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: bbottom on February 18, 2015, 05:41:13 PM
I play with my fingers and I am horrible with a pick. It's only recently that I've been trying to play more with a pick. My guitar player says that I have "palsy hand"

The majority of my favorite bass players mainly play with a pick. In hindsight it's a bit odd that I didn't start out playing with one
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: spookstrickland on February 19, 2015, 08:16:13 PM
What about pick vs fingers on guitar to add to the shitstorm!  I'm a finger man now because of tendonitits.
Title: Re:
Post by: VOLVO))) on February 19, 2015, 08:22:28 PM
I do both. I also jack it with my opposite hand sometimes.

THE STRANGER.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: BastardCthulhu on February 20, 2015, 07:09:08 AM
I use both, depending on the amount of fatigue I'm dealing with in my right arm...I may start out with a pick, until I lose all feeling in my hand.  that results in me just flailing away and hoping I'm hitting the right string..then I go to the fingers, that allows my arm to relax a bit...then it's back to the pick.  I've refined my fingerstyle to the point where I can attack the strings and make it sound like a pick...
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: CID Vicious on March 03, 2015, 12:54:48 PM
As a producer/engineer I think either or even slapping works.

I misinterpreted what a lot of 'grindy' rock bassists were doing. I thought when I heard that,  oh, like dude from Faith No More.

Well after developing my 'caveman rock slap' style? Come to find out, Ryknow uses Entwistle style fingers, Paul D'Amour used a pick, etc.

After some time with all three techniques into a flat mic channel, all three add the big string energy and top end zing that makes rock bass both boom and cut simultaneously.

I like fingerstyle for slow stuff but when the thrashing starts, fuck the nonsense..
also helps that "bassist" is like four places down the list on my musical resume...

FWIW - first live show I played was behind this fusion-Hendrix wanker. From "I'd like to play out but haven't" to staring down 1500 people at Michigan Peace Fest.

EVERYONE complimented Jimmy that night! "You guys were AWESOME! & your bass player is INSANE!!!"

Not bad for a self taught caveman on a bill full of jam bands full of college jazz dudes..
;-)

Pick your poison...are we still worried about genre
apropos-ness in 2015 anyway? Think the movie Strange Days - the world needs new flavors of bubble gum...
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: everdrone on March 05, 2015, 03:14:28 PM
note selection is most important.  can bassist play the song???

I use fingers when I am bored, it is rare.  I tried using three fingers but that is hard, I can do it but ya the pick works better for me and I like the attack and ability to more easily mute the other strings.  I slap bass on a rare blue moon but more like for thunder loud tones and not for funk.  I dont play funk.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: mortlock on March 05, 2015, 07:31:43 PM
you don't play funk, it plays you..
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: everdrone on March 05, 2015, 10:02:36 PM
my bassist starts playing flea type basslines last week goofing off after we finished our DOOMZ,  and I wish I could get it to make sense...
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: zachoff on September 12, 2015, 12:24:07 AM
Ha, play whatever sounds best.  If it sounds good, play it.  Don't care how the sound is made.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: giantchris on September 12, 2015, 09:32:12 PM
For Steve Harris I think he sounds absolutely fine with that now if he was playing more downtuned he'd probably sound better with a pick because you'd lose most of the nuance he's doing at that speed.  Unless he does what Alex Webster does, if you read about what Alex Webster is doing he has his bass setup in a somewhat peculiar way with really floppy strings to get his bass to sound like that in addition to running a specific type of rig that emphasizes some frequencies.  There's a really good thread on talkbass about it called death metal technique or something thats stickied.  I think for the more staccato stuff picks are way better though but galloping sounds great fingerstyle or with a pick. 
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: mortlock on September 23, 2015, 10:21:13 AM
I love alex Webster and I cannot stand steve harris. possibly most over rated metal bassist ever.

yeah, I said it.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: BastardCthulhu on September 24, 2015, 08:50:16 AM
Smited!  Do we still do that here??
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: mortlock on September 24, 2015, 07:56:33 PM
apparently.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: CID Vicious on November 27, 2015, 02:40:24 PM
I play guitar and bass, but I vastly prefer fingerstyle now.

Once two finger strike-through is learned you rarely if ever are caught out vs a pick. "Corpse Guy" is proof, especially at stoner tempos.

Jumped in with a kinda Godflesh-y band after practicing TFST all summer, & actually had more problems picking.

I think it's setup. A really nice setup for modern, slap, YFST may actually be too responsive for picking dynamics.

Tighter strings on a "deader" vintage type instrument - P or Tbird with original vintage style bridge IMO is what's needed for pick. Less bounce and swing at the string. Even thumpier/deader tone to compensate for the bright pick attack.

Whereas you want an almost drumhead like sensitivity for fingerstyle - high mass bridge, brighter pickups and/or amp settings, slacker strings.

I personally always *enjoy* playing bass fingerstyle more, and enthusiasm counts. Go to a drum off and see it yourself. Steve Harris would hate picking his lines and would do so begrudgingly.

And in a mix or live no one can hear those little nuances, & as an audio engineer your bedroom tone counts for nil. The mix tone *is the tone*, just ask any bassist on a fuzz hunt. That muff that sounds all badass solo'd disappears (except in the sense of the wall of sound) next to my Laney.

Don't take my word just Google on Talkbass.

In other words, Steve Harris sounds awesome in the mix, *thus he sounds awesome*. Iron Maiden sounds awesome with Harris playing, thus we think he's awesome, not the reverse.
Title: Re: Bass - Pick vs. Fingers Shitstorm
Post by: CID Vicious on November 27, 2015, 02:47:55 PM
Quote from: everdrone on March 05, 2015, 10:02:36 PM
my bassist starts playing flea type basslines last week goofing off after we finished our DOOMZ,  and I wish I could get it to make sense...



https://youtu.be/SmAKjxsJMa4

That's some kinda standard Sabbathy riffing with all the bass parts or most slapped. P pickup into pissed grindy Ampeg sim.

Just ditch the ghey Seinfeld Tone and slap for power. Not unlike Strike Through.