When I started music, I did everything on my own. I bought all the necessary equipment, all of my own recording shit, rented my own jam space... all that, on my own. I'm in two bands, now, and I still pay for the jam space, supply all of the equipment and write 90% of the songs. It used to be a shitload of fun, now... it's... different. The only factor that has changed is that other people are involved... Dealing with these people's schedules is hard, and not having any financial help from any of them is pretty draining. They fucking forget songs we've played a hundred times, or fuck riffs up that THEY wrote. I'm always on time, and always ready to go. I always felt like finding people with proper equipment was hard, so I invested... at this point, something like seven grand in all of the shit that I own, just so people can walk in and have a fucking amp that will keep up with mine. I have a 900 dollar drum set so the drummers I jam with can play on something other than low end bullshit. Then you have to deal with people without a ride, or a ride and no gas... etc... It's no fun. This is all spurred by band practice being tonight, and me being there on time, waiting for an hour, and nobody shows up. Bass player rode his bike seven miles to hang out with a chick that I've been talking to, and the drummer is trashed, passed out on the floor at his girlfriends. I'm burned out. Share your experiences.
One guy would show up with a 5th of bourbon and get the other guy wasted too. He wouldn't know how to play his parts, week after week (parts he came up with). I would say "lets do this part 4x, then the other part 2x" and he would say "I dunno, why don't we just jam and let the changes happen naturally?" (passive aggressive). He just wanted the companionship I guess... we might as well have been bowling, or playing cards. He was there to hang out and have drinks with his friend.
People who can't help pay rent, people who show up and act bored, people who can't carry anything...
Sounds like you need a solo project ;)
I can relate somewhat to that experience. I started out doing music when I was like 12-13, keyboards, sampling, sequencing blah blah all that stuff. Started playing guitar and didn't have anyone to jam with so I just programmed drum & bass tracks and so on. Then I decided to really make it happen one day, man, met some really "interesting" people to say the least. I remember one dude who wanted to be our vocalist would sit in a chair with his arms crossed. Very Edgy59 but not as cool/good. I've had drummers who couldn't keep time/forget parts, a guitar player who couldn't play in 4/4 for the life of him, would always fuck up songs, basically everything you're talking about. He would only write shit in weird fucking time signatures, and they would sound really stupid and "hipster". I started my project with the vision of being a Doom band, not a Sword rip off or a folk metal band, it was really frustrating. One of the drummers would also ALWAYS have to have a 40 before practice.. Really fucking irritating. I was the only dude who drove too... eek, that can be a pain in the ass..
Luckily I met some dudes whom I have great chemistry with now, we're really closely knit, we all help each other out with the finances, we're more than a band of friends, it's kinda like a family/team-work thing now. Which is cool, it's definitely soothing to know I don't have to worry about certain aspects of shit that I shouldn't have to worry about in the first place. I say you ditch the moochers/dead weight/deadbeats/etc. and find you some real motherfuckers dude. Some like minded dudes who are serious about shit! Good luck to you in your quest my brother.
been there. no fun. what I could never understand is why they dont just call and say, "sorry I cant make it tonight".
had a guy show up over an hour late, we were all waiting for him. I had a pizza and offered him a slice even tho i was pissed at him. He goes "Oh no thanks man I just went out to dinner with my girlfreind before I came over". So you mean, while we've been waiting here for you for over an hour, and you knew this was scheduled and we'd be here waiting for you , you were out having dinner instead?
drugs too, I dont even wanna tell the stories, they are horrible.
still these are my brothers, most of em, and i love em. Im no saint either.
These ARE my friends, that's why this is so frustrating. I don't drink, or smoke, or do drugs... shit, I don't even fuck around on my women. I have my own business, pay my own bills, and I lug these sorry motherfuckers to every show that I go to. The problem ones are both really smart dudes, they're just shitbags. No motivation, parents pay their way... they feel like I should be honored to have them in my band, is the vibe I get. I'm not ragging on them, but if I can do all of these things, and have all that I have, there is absolutely NO reason they can't do the same thing. I'm not a fucking rocket scientist, or some kind of money guru, but I can handle my own shit. If I get really fucked, short because I bought something I wasn't supposed to, I go and find the extra money that I need. Be it doing instrument repairs, or electronics repairs, cutting grass, picking up cans, I don't give a fuck. Finding real motherfuckers in this town is fairly impossible. I'm currently using the cream of the crop, and it's these douchebags. It's either them, or no band. I'm kind of leaning towards no band, at this point. Fuck it.
man sunn, where are you at? we should jam!!
i have been in bands with super fuck ups. (that's a good name for a band!) now, i have 3 pretty goo guys. bass player likes to get a bit too drunk sometimes at practice, but not before shows. the drummer is good and productive, but he doesn't really ever bring ideas to the table. just drums. the synth player and i are the ones who bring the ideas. but, we all show up to practice on time. have gear taht works and understand each others crazy schedules.
good luck man!
ive had the good and the bad..currently ive got perhaps my best band yet..we only play when we are live..no rehersals..you really cant get sick of eachother.. haha..and we are all totally into doing anything that comes down the pike..everybody is on board with doing shit..unlike previous bands where doing things like actually traveling and playing shows was out of the question..
Quote from: SunnO))) on March 07, 2011, 07:55:30 PM
I don't even fuck around on my women.
That made me chuckle.
Where you at?
I'll be there in 20 minutes, and I'll bring my own shit.
Florida. Probably a bit oot of yer way, eh?
I've jammed with alot of guys that like to talk about doing shit, but when it comes down to it there is always an excuse. Just something as simple a hitting the road a little bit. My last band had some chances to do some "mini tours" and they started wanting to know how much they were gonna get paid and what kind of room them and their girlfriends were gonna get. I'm thinking we (the band, not their girlfriends/wives/kids) just get in a van take some tents and maybe get lucky enough to sleep on some floors once in awhile. I just wanted to go play for the adventure. I'm 44, I figured it was kind of a 'last chance' to do the heavy rock thing like that. I'm working on blues stuff now thinking I may be able to do it that way. Maybe work up a set and just take my guitar a small amp and go. Yeah, I'll probably finance it myself, but it's not about money. I just want to play in a bunch of different places and see them a little bit. It sounds way more fun to me than a Disneyland vacation.
Quote from: SunnO))) on March 07, 2011, 09:52:35 PM
Florida. Probably a bit oot of yer way, eh?
Did I say 2o minutes? Make that 20 hours.
I used to be able to drive from Ann Arbor to Cocoa Beach in 18 hours.
SunnO))) - You got no girl, you got no band. Come to NYC, we can start a band. I show up to practices, I remember my parts, I pay my own way, and I think you're an incredibly sexy chick when you shave.
In all seriousness though, kick every one of those assholes to the curb. People that behave like that are not band mates or friends. No more chances, just dump them and move on. You'll be fine, they'll be fine. This is of course unless you want to have these arguments 5 - 10 years from now, as opposed to actually touring and making records...
I gave up finding the "perfect band" a long time ago. It's an illusion, all people have their quirks. Some are great musicians, but have low motivation or very annoying persons, others put in lots of time and effort on the band, but are horrible musicians and others are awesome people, but chronically broke, late or both.
You should just break out like Walter in your Avatar and yell at them "HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE CRAZY!?!?!" but instead of rules, change it to "AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE TONE ANYMORE!?!?"
Florida? Hopping in my chopper now dude, see you in a bit. Seriously though, that's a fucking bummer man, and I totally know how you feel. Hell, even when I'm OUT of a job I STILL have to find ways to hustle up money and survive, thinking about getting into tattooing or some shit. Anyways, over here in the Bay Area (in Oakland at least) there seems to be a lot of serious dudes. I never knew how big the music scene was here until I got involved in it, everybody fucking knows everybody. Not to mention we're all miserable scum bags so being in a serious band is kind of a good thing for us all the look forward too. Fuck this state!!
Most definitely. I used to play in three bands; now I play in none.
(http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/041510/gifts-for-musicians.gif)
Quote from: Ranbat on March 07, 2011, 10:14:34 PM
I've jammed with alot of guys that like to talk about doing shit, but when it comes down to it there is always an excuse. Just something as simple a hitting the road a little bit. My last band had some chances to do some "mini tours" and they started wanting to know how much they were gonna get paid and what kind of room them and their girlfriends were gonna get. I'm thinking we (the band, not their girlfriends/wives/kids) just get in a van take some tents and maybe get lucky enough to sleep on some floors once in awhile. I just wanted to go play for the adventure. I'm 44, I figured it was kind of a 'last chance' to do the heavy rock thing like that. I'm working on blues stuff now thinking I may be able to do it that way. Maybe work up a set and just take my guitar a small amp and go. Yeah, I'll probably finance it myself, but it's not about money. I just want to play in a bunch of different places and see them a little bit. It sounds way more fun to me than a Disneyland vacation.
well said..i dont care about the money..or lack of it in my case. i just want to play for the experience of it. new people, new places. you cant put a price tag on that..
Sunn I feel your pain!!! Last band I was in the guitar player always had some excuse why he couldnt jam this week, we had a set time each and every week and it always seemed like he was chasing that piece of ass he had at the time around. The real kick in the balls was the week I said fuck it and just went to jam with the drummer, he said he I wrote 90% of the music and they could never remember anything, so when we started new songs it took forever.
And I get pissed when the guys in my bands take a week to get me rent money...
Also, don't complain about the guys in your band who get too drunk. Be the guy who gets too drunk. Much easier and more rewarding.
My last 2 bands had 2 consistent members: myself on guitar and the drummer. For 4 years+ we hashed it out in clubs around PA, MD and OH. HE was a pain in the ass when we first started but in my area drummers are few and far between, so i dealt with it. He hated the music we played, hated the shows, hated all music that wasn't Dream Theater, Tool or Rush, and cared ONLY about his drum parts in the songs and not at all about the songs themselves. He wrote some lyrics but the songs were mine and i did all of the bookings/business for the band. I sucked up my pride and dealt with it until i could take no more. I haven't played a show since last April and i am still hesitant about being in band.
My question is why on earth did he stick around if he didn't like the music. I mean, I am just assuming you're not making huge money on this shit.
Man after reading some of what you guys go through to be in a band makes me glad I have the members that I have. My last band had solid members. Missed rehearsal occasionally but they were there when it counted. Me and the singer/guitar player were pretty good friends. Rode with me to shows typically. We got to a point where we weren't having as much fun and agreed to hang it up. My current band I have a couple guys that get in my nerves in little ways. Inconsistent playing and a little whiny about their life stuff going on and letting it affect them but for the most part they're there and do what they gotta do. We've been having a little problem with the lead guitarist rock starring it up a little too much at shows and playing like shit but we let him know and he takes it in stride. Now my band before my last band I would need a post as long as a novel to even get into that shit with the members.
Sounds like you need to upgrade the level of people you involve yourself with musically, Sunn)))
"Build an army of professionals" -- Sun Tzu, 'The Art of War'
Yeah, all it takes is one motherfucker to derail the entire process. People like that piss me off, and are either cast aside or left to wallow in their own mediocrity.
Quote from: LogicalFrank on March 08, 2011, 12:17:57 PM
My question is why on earth did he stick around if he didn't like the music. I mean, I am just assuming you're not making huge money on this shit.
Honestly...I think that no one else would put up with him! His attitude was shit! He had the chops, and a 4 year degree in percussion. He said to me on several occasions that if he wasn't playing in our particular band he would never get to play his drums because he lives in an apartment and can't set them up and he has no people skills to go out and find a band. yeah......he was very strange.
Sorry, misread the topic, I thought you were looking for people who were turned on by their band members ;D
Now if only I could be in Bolt Thrower
(http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/bolt_thrower025_547119.jpg)
Dude, seriously. It sounds like you need to cut those mother fuckers loose. Looks like they're not doing anything but slowing you down.
Trust me, I've been there. Its all about continuing to network and jam with different people until you assemble the right group of guys. If you're having to foot the bill on equipment, jam space, rides, etc etc then you don't need em. I've had about a million failed attempts at bands over the years and every once in a great while, you'll find the right folks. I've also learned not to take that granted if you've found those right people, because when they're not around and you have to deal with dimwits that don't want to do anything but talk a game then you'll realize to keep a good thing going as long as you can.
Even when you think you've got a good group musically, they can still suck in all other aspects. I was in this band for a couple of years that was honestly talented as fuck, and we got offered some really good things (esp lots of awesome out of town shows with goods bands within our genre) and ended up not being about to do 85% of the shit because of people in the band that couldn't get their personal shit together. Our last show wasn't even a local show, we played an out of town show at this mini-festival in St. Louis. This is a city 6 hours away from where me and the singer lived by the way, and around 4 1/2 from where they lived(long distance band- 2 members from little rock, ar 2 members from memphis, tn - 2 hours away). Our drummer calls me the day of the show and tells me he has to work until 2:00 (when he'd known about the show for a good two months), and they'd leave as soon as he got off. The fest started early and the day and luckily the girl that booked us put us next to last on the lineup. The singer and I drove all the way from Little Rock to St. Louis, while the guitarist and drummer left Memphis after he got off work. We were there most of the day, and I shit you not, they pulled into the parking lot as the band right before us was tearing down(around 10:00-10:30 or so). Waayyy later than they should've been even if they left an hour after he got off work. Talk about a nervous wreck, the singer and I were furious. Luckily we played the show and it all went well but I seriously was about to lose my shit. We quit talking after that and just quit playing shows, even though we were gaining a decent following in the regional area. Completely frustrating. That's just one of many, but that's the one that burned my ass the most.
Here's my criteria and the standard I try to adhere to, and expect from others: Don't Be A Dick. It really is that simple. If you can't keep your gear in working order but you're buying shots and grams, you're being a dick. If you're hours late every time, you're being a dick. If you're 30 minutes late, you're NOT being a dick. If you miss a practice occasionally because your ol' lady's dad is dying, you're NOT being a dick. If you don't move your gear fast enough at a show because you're finally talking up with a girl you've liked for months, I'm gonna let you fly your flag and I'll happily get your cabs/drums off the stage because I'm your brother. If you pull that more than one or twice or worse habitually, you're straight up being a dick and I'll fucking squawk. Singers who've never played an instrument and never carry anything, well, you were probably born a dick LOL j/k. Kind of.
Lumps, when writing songs I'm the "let's rip through it and let the feeling/vibe dictate how many times a riff goes before changing" guy. I never considered it an act of passive-aggression, but more like pushing for songs to never feel "forced" or something. Just a point on your point, sir. Can't have a riff lose impact from being too short or too long !
tl;dr....bottom line is just have a minimum standard of expectations and let all else go.
Is it possible to have a double boner? Jo AND a USA MKII ironbird with white binding and a 2n2 rosewood headstock? Bursting pants...
I like the open jam thing, but I also like recording and listening back to it to see what I might be able to add/subtract, listen for too much or too little repetition, maybe fuck with the recording and flip the sound wave to hear the chord progression backwards, move the riffs around, etc. I dunno. That stuff's exciting to me.
Quote from: SunnO))) on March 08, 2011, 06:20:04 PM
Is it possible to have a double boner? Jo AND a USA MKII ironbird with white binding and a 2n2 rosewood headstock? Bursting pants...
Did you post that in the right thread?
Edit: Whoops. I guess you did. Tell me more about this "boner".
Quote from: Discö Rice on March 08, 2011, 06:20:31 PM
I like the open jam thing, but I also like recording and listening back to it to see what I might be able to add/subtract, listen for too much or too little repetition, maybe fuck with the recording and flip the sound wave to hear the chord progression backwards, move the riffs around, etc. I dunno. That stuff's exciting to me.
That's the way things have been going in both of my bands (Dave is in one of them) and its worked out exceptionally well. Someone will come back the next week after listening to the recording and suggest we switch riffs around or play something a little longer or whatever and it works out for the better 9 times out of 10. Good way to work since technology allows you to do so in an easier way nowadays.
Quote from: Metal Dave on March 08, 2011, 05:33:21 PM
Here's my criteria and the standard I try to adhere to, and expect from others: Don't Be A Dick. It really is that simple. If you can't keep your gear in working order but you're buying shots and grams, you're being a dick. If you're hours late every time, you're being a dick. If you're 30 minutes late, you're NOT being a dick. If you miss a practice occasionally because your ol' lady's dad is dying, you're NOT being a dick. If you don't move your gear fast enough at a show because you're finally talking up with a girl you've liked for months, I'm gonna let you fly your flag and I'll happily get your cabs/drums off the stage because I'm your brother. If you pull that more than one or twice or worse habitually, you're straight up being a dick and I'll fucking squawk. Singers who've never played an instrument and never carry anything, well, you were probably born a dick LOL j/k. Kind of.
man.. this is good enough to get tattooed.
It's almost always the non instrument playing singers that do it especially the ones that don't own any gear and bitch constantly about whatever they are provided with at a gig or practice that I get burned out on they'll talk for days on how great things are going to be and how wonderful this band is going to be, but can't even be arsed to pick up a used SM 58 when the mic (that they didn't own in the first place broke) but they got money for booze, smokes and everything else. Hey I just blew 350 bucks on coke, but now I'll bitch about how I can't afford a P.A.
Trying to do a trio, bass player and me both making pretty sorry attempts at vocals, but no more non playing singers.
i feel really lucky to jam with the dudes I play with.
we dont practice a lot, but no one gets butt hurt about it.
Quote from: rayinreverse on March 08, 2011, 10:36:22 PM
i feel really lucky to jam with the dudes I play with.
we dont practice a lot, but no one gets butt hurt about it.
I'm in the same boat. our time constraints are pretty hefty and we consider it a gift to be able to play at all. I suppose this means that when the opportunity to jam arises, we all do what we can to make it happen. Because we all want it to. You can't fix the desire issue with others. They either want to play or not.
I believe that this issue is why there are so many duo's out now. Less people to keep on track.
I'm headed in that direction, my buddy is a really good bass player, and a really good guy... he wants to do a duo. I'm thinking about dumping everyone else and just doing that.
Quote from: Hemisaurus on March 08, 2011, 03:22:55 PM
Sorry, misread the topic, I thought you were looking for people who were turned on by their band members ;D
Now if only I could be in Bolt Thrower
Oh, Bolt Thrower. I got
In Battle There is No Law when I was 14 or 15 and listened to it purely to piss my parents off. I don't really think I even liked it. Now I actually like most of what Bolt Thrower has done but still don't really like that album. Plus I think if I wanted to piss off my parents now I'd go buy a car I couldn't afford or something.
To the topic at hand... If you're bummed on them you can either tell them in hopes they'll change (which they probably won't) or find other folks to make music with. You only live once, man. No need to spend your time doing something you're not happy with. I figure if people are really into making music they'll have the tools to do so and if their tools are insufficient (heh heh) then they'll invest in ones that are. You shouldn't have to supply rigs for people that are only in it to tell girls they're in a band. That's silly talk.
I get burned out trying FIND band members!!! Where are all of the damn drummers around here?!?!
Christ i am playing bass now because there are NO bass players to be heard of. I don't mind though...its nice to be the low man on the totem pole sometimes.
All i know is that i will never put myself in a position again where one member of the band has a choke hold on creativity, progress and over all enjoyment of playing. I got into this lifestyle for fun (and chicks....they have yet to show up) and it is mind numbing to force yourself to trudge on with shitty band mates.
Oh man some band members are the worst.
Someone was saying about knowing about a show for two months in advance but had to be at work.. I had a show booked for my birthday, was gonna be a bit of a shindig, we were putting it on ourselves and shit, and I see the bassist a couple of weeks before, and remind him about it. He says "oh.. I'm gonna be on holiday". His girlfriend dumped him and he "needed to get away".... uggghhh.
I play with a singer / songwriter fella who has a sort of revolving door system of musicians, which is ok for him as he writes and records all his own stuff and is more than happy to play by himself, but it's a better show with more people and it's just trying to pool together people.
I'm sort of half in another band with no bassist at the moment, but that's sort of going down the pan... i'm the only one to organise practices, the singer never writes lyrics, the one gig we had I was the only one talking to the crowd.
So that band took a back seat and now my main band is the one that everyone puts the effort in for and we've been going all over the places for gigs. I think that if you are all pulling together as a band you could be great... now if people stopped playing over you when you're trying to talk, you could be unstoppable ;D
I used to play with this guy who would regularly cancel about an hour before rehearsal. We didn't have a warehouse, we paid for a rehearsal studio ($40 for a minimum of 4 hours). I would pull up (coming straight from work) and the drummer would say "dude, ____ just sent me a message, he can't make it because <insert lame excuse here>. If he gave some notice we could have cancelled the studio and saved some cash but instead the drummer and I had to foot the whole bill. I know $20 each isn't much but when it continuously happens it really pisses you off.
When he did show up he looked bored out of his mind, and constantly forgot his parts--especially on riffs he wrote. He also had NO sense of timing or rhythm, he had to follow me or the drummer. He wouldn't remember the names of the songs so he'd say "hey, let's play this..." and he would play part of a riff but his phrasing would be so screwed up me and the drummer would be like "what the fuck was that?"
When we had a gig he wanted to play as few songs as possible. We always planned on 5 songs, around 30-35 minutes, but he always argued for less--like 2 or 3. I think if we just showed up at a gig, set up, broke down and went home without playing a note he would be ecstatic. Eventually he got to the point where after the third song he would say " my hand hurts too much to keep going, lets skip to the last song"
Sad thing is, he's one of the GOOD ones in my area